[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Who cares about those brainwashed alt-right log cabin republican Auntie Tams GoldHeart; they're crafted entirely out of hate and bile.

The sad thing is regardless of political views ,both the right & left should work together when it comes to this issue. But it's sadly never going to happen.

I watched a podcast with 3 very liberal trans women , and one of them called detransioners " quitters" which I found pretty heartless and the opposite of understanding and accepting.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Tom4784

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this? You're a great example of what happens when someone lacks critical thinking regarding their sources and they just believe whatever they like the sound of.

Detransitioning is rare, and you're only making out that it's 'swept' under the carpet because you ultimately want to push a false narrative that a lot of people regret transitioning when it's not the case.

The rest of your post is just inane nonsense that's not worth addressing.

I've heard a few of the LGBTQ community reject them,and like I said I watched a podcast where a very vocal trans woman called them "quitters", she lacked any compassion for them.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

You're the only one mentioning "main characters" Dezzy - and you've accused multiple people of it with very little foundation. It's quite an obvious projection at this point? You've just told me not to bother with a long reply, that it was a rhetorical question, because you aren't interested in a long answer. I've never thought you were here for my benefit - but I'm not writing any of this for your benefit either, Dezzy? So why wouldn't I reply? I genuinely don't care if you even read it; your responses to me (and everyone else) are the same every time. Overly aggressive, telling people they're self-important bigots, letting us know that you're just here to tell everyone what's what, and even suggesting that you're "making people feel bad". I don't see how you possibly could be when the responses are just a rehash of the same insults you throw around in every reply, and entirely predictable.

You do lack self-awareness. I haven't made excuses, my views on this change and progress on his topic quite a bit actually, and I've criticised the people piggybacking suppoort on the issue to for their own ends in this thread only for you to claim that I don't do it . Does there have to be an element of righteous fury for you to accept it as valid?

No number of kids killing themselves is an acceptible. My daughter has trans friends. They're great kids. They all sadly have some very clear issues that have nothing to do with gender (mostly family issues). There are a number of complex mental health comorbidities that come along with and often precede questioning gender identity, that come long before and extend far beyond "people are mean about it". I strongly believe that the best way to keep people safe is to get the actual work done in understanding that. You want to oversimplify it into something basic and pretend that if everyone just stops talking about it, everyone will be happy & fine. That thinking is by far the more dangerous thinking -- luckily, experts and professionals do actually understand that. I just hope your ilk aren't successful in bullying all of those professionals out in favour of non-expert peer support. Which has its place, but not front and centre.

Hope you enjoyed my TED talk.

Ah, so you're echoing the same non-logic as Goldheart at this point that should be a red flag. 'You can't point out stereotypes without being guilty of said stereotypes!' 'You can't point out that we think you exist for our benefit without us accusing you of the same!'

You guys are the ones making out that your validation and belief is somehow integral to my views and that I have to prove them to you, yet you accuse me of projecting main character syndrome onto you? That lack of self-awareness is striking again, TS. You act like I'm projecting but when have I have I made out in this thread that you need to prove anything to me? I have the same standards for you as I do myself, but you cannot say the same without being a complete hypocrite and a liar.

Everything you say about trans basically comes down to 'Yeah, trans suicide and violence is bad, BUT' and there's a lot in that but. You're just covering your bases, nothing more.

Ah, so now I'm 'bullying professionals' although I've clearly always said that people should defer to medical advice related to transitioning even when people like you pick and choose when it comes to when medical advice is valid or not. God you're just throwing **** at a wall and hoping it sticks, aren't you?

[Niamh.]

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I've heard a few of the LGBTQ community reject them,and like I said I watched a podcast where a very vocal trans woman called them "quitters", she lacked any compassion for them.

Goldheart went out of her way to find one example of something and now she thinks that's a searing indictment for trans people as a whole.

Again, do I have to bring up the Myra Hindley example again to show you how dumb that logic is? You'll find **** people of every persuasion, but holding up a podcast host as representative to all trans people is like saying that Myra Hindley is representative of women. It's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Tom4784

Ah, so you're echoing the same non-logic as Goldheart at this point that should be a red flag. 'You can't point out stereotypes without being guilty of said stereotypes!' 'You can't point out that we think you exist for our benefit without us accusing you of the same!'

You guys are the ones making out that your validation and belief is somehow integral to my views and that I have to prove them to you, yet you accuse me of projecting main character syndrome onto you? That lack of self-awareness is striking again, TS. You act like I'm projecting but when have I have I made out in this thread that you need to prove anything to me? I have the same standards for you as I do myself, but you cannot say the same without being a complete hypocrite and a liar.

Everything you say about trans basically comes down to 'Yeah, trans suicide and violence is bad, BUT' and there's a lot in that but. You're just covering your bases, nothing more.

Ah, so now I'm 'bullying professionals' although I've clearly always said that people should defer to medical advice related to transitioning even when people like you pick and choose when it comes to when medical advice is valid or not. God you're just throwing **** at a wall and hoping it sticks, aren't you?

I've asked you once to back up a claim you made, because it sounded unreasonable and exaggerated, a perfectly normal part of any debate, and you couldn't... so I checked for myself... and discovered that there was no evidence whatsoever for the claim that you made. You don't need to "prove anything to me" in any grand sense Dezzy, I think I know enough .

"Here are some facts for you. What? Back them up with anything more than my own word?? How dare you!"

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

In the last few years it's actually risen ,so that doesn't surprise me at all. But sadly they get shunned by the community.

And 10 years ago the whole trans thing wasn't an issue. I truly believe social media,and a spike in self entitled people have hijacked it .

Here's an interesting video . Not sure if you've watched it

Youtube video

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

The most popular reddits have over 30 million members. The main trans reddit (not counting any other more specialist reddits too) shadows that reddit in terms of numbers too.

You've also got to ask yourself some questions regarding that reddit. Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

Detransitioning does happen, but it's not a thing to most people and there's only a narrative that it's more common than people think because gender critical people believe that such a narrative hurts trans people.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Tom4784

Goldheart went out of her way to find one example of something and now she thinks that's a searing indictment for trans people as a whole.

Again, do I have to bring up the Myra Hindley example again to show you how dumb that logic is? You'll find **** people of every persuasion, but holding up a podcast host as representative to all trans people is like saying that Myra Hindley is representative of women. It's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say.

The really sad thing is I didn't need to "go out of my way" , it's all out there in bundles . You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it .

She wasn't the host ,she was a trans guest on the podcast . But you can pretend her opinion is invisible all you like,but she said what she said ...and it's not a one off thing . Other people in the community have said similar statements about detransioners.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Tom4784

The most popular reddits have over 30 million members. The main trans reddit (not counting any other more specialist reddits too) shadows that reddit in terms of numbers too.

You've also got to ask yourself some questions regarding that reddit. Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

Detransitioning does happen, but it's not a thing to most people and there's only a narrative that it's more common than people think because gender critical people believe that such a narrative hurts trans people.

Sure but there's not going to be 30million detransitioners when the whole trans population itself isn't massive either.

I guess we have no real way of knowing but I thought we were supposed to accept peoples identity claims at face value? or is it just the "correct" identities? There are plenty detransitioners on youtube that you can actually see and hear for yourself so are definitely genuine. A few with legal cases too

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Tom4784

Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

Soldier there's a literal podcast of a trans woman calling them "Quitters" it's a very long video,so not sure if you want to sit through it . I can send you the link if you want .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

Did you see the amount of hate KC Miller got just for talking about the downside of taking cross sex hormones? I'm not even sure they were detransitioning and they got attacked so much just for speaking negatively about the process

[Crimson Dynamo]

if anyone was in any doubt about Keir Starmer’s determination to let
nothing stand in the way of a Labour general election
victory, they should pay attention to a little-reported comment he
made in Scotland last week. “Gender recognition will not be one of the
priorities of the incoming government”, he told an interviewer in the
context of the ongoing debate doing so much damage to the SNP
during its ongoing leadership contest

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...rans-ideology/

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Tom4784

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this?

Google it, it's not GoldHeart's job to educate you, she's not a supporting player to your main character.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

In the last few years it's actually risen ,so that doesn't surprise me at all. But sadly they get shunned by the community.

And 10 years ago the whole trans thing wasn't an issue. I truly believe social media,and a spike in self entitled people have hijacked it .

Here's an interesting video . Not sure if you've watched it

Youtube video

Nice to hear from an actual trans person for a change, thanks for the clip GH

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nice to hear from an actual trans person for a change, thanks for the clip GH

Tbh I'm surprised she was allowed the platform ....as usually we get the other side pushing stuff , I'm glad we got to hear her views aswell.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Google it, it's not GoldHeart's job to educate you, she's not a supporting player to your main character.

Lol

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Tbh I'm surprised she was allowed the platform ....as usually we get the other side pushing stuff , I'm glad we got to hear her views aswell.

Would shouting in an agressive way be allowed on any other topic? i think not snd as for crossing the house to sit and glare at her...he should be sectioned

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Would shouting in an agressive way be allowed on any other topic? i think not snd as for crossing the house to sit and glare at her...he should be sectioned

Exactly
I don't understand how that was allowed, he's unhinged that MP. Once again it feels like we've gone backwards....with men basically telling women 'shut up your feelings are invalid you bigot'

[Crimson Dynamo]

that nasty labour mp is a women hater and he has previous

typical of the trans mob mentality

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The really sad thing is I didn't need to "go out of my way" , it's all out there in bundles . You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it .

She wasn't the host ,she was a trans guest on the podcast . But you can pretend her opinion is invisible all you like,but she said what she said ...and it's not a one off thing . Other people in the community have said similar statements about detransioners.

God, I don't know how someone can be so dense to consistently miss the ****ing point.

You are picking and choosing extreme examples to paint a false image of the trans community as a whole. You can pick all the cherry picked examples you want, you'll still be painting in broad strokes about trans people to suit your own agenda.

Again, imagine if I did that to you. Imagine if I made out that you were a threat to children based on something like your gender alone, because after all, I could probably pull up a lot of stories about women abusing and/or killing children. You would rightfully lose your **** over it, yet you've made out that trans people are a threat to women in the past using the same kind of examples and you're cherrypicking examples to put out a false narrative that detransitioning is more common than it actually is, not to help transpeople, but to eradicate them.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Detransitioning when actually down the transitioning path (hormones, surgery) is rare - gander swapping back to natal gender after a period of identifying as transgender in teenagers is extremely common (in fact it's most people who experiment with gender, in a period of 6 months to two years).

And yes; they are often socially rejected by their LGBTQ+ peers if they choose to "switch back" their names and pronouns. It's quite a big issue in high schools. I've literally seen it happen to two kids.

You are quite literally mansplaining the LGBT community to a member of said community. Cringeworthy. The funny thing is you speak so confidently yet you clearly don't know anything besides the same cherry picked **** that Goldheart goes for.

Please do this to an LGBT person in real life and be sure to record it, I want to see them glance to other LGBT people in the vicinity with that 'here we go again...' look and see whether they straight up laugh in your face or patronise you by letting you dig that hole further and further. Honestly, it could be an Alan Partridge sketch.

[GoldHeart]

Youtube video

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I've asked you once to back up a claim you made, because it sounded unreasonable and exaggerated, a perfectly normal part of any debate, and you couldn't... so I checked for myself... and discovered that there was no evidence whatsoever for the claim that you made. You don't need to "prove anything to me" in any grand sense Dezzy, I think I know enough .

"Here are some facts for you. What? Back them up with anything more than my own word?? How dare you!"

Your belief is not required, I know this is probably hard for someone like you that has to impress your shallow intelligence on people at every opportunity (unsuccessfully), but no one has to perform for you either.

You are not as important to others as you think you are. People don't have to validate their opinions to you, and it's about time that insanely undeserved ego of yours comes to grips with that.

Also you're probably pretty **** at googling, if you actually googled it at all which I doubt.