[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The motion didn't even mention As and was about the election results of 2019, in which more people voted for him than Milliband, Blair in 05, and Brown. Miliband now part of Starmers team. Everything that was thrown at Corbyn regarding Stalinist purges and factionalism is happening now, and if decent centrist labour folks like yourself accept that any mp can be removed on the whim of the current leader, against the wishes of his constituency, then you can't also claim to believe in the democracy of the party. I will never vote labour again, because labour doesn't want people who believe in democratic socialist ideals. A truly sad day for the party.

Starmer is an absolute fraud who is about as dishonest as Johnson if we look at everything he said versus reality. so if you want to support this, then be prepared to keep moaning (in the good sense) about starmer going back on even more things he's said. You know he's a liar, because you're interested in politics and specifically labour. He will walk the next election on the back of the tories; as would Corbyn, as would Milliband, as would Brown, but his tory impression isn't going to inspire anyone to give him a second term. Acting like a tory only works for tories, and voters will opt for the real thing. You know about the Forde report and the labour files, and that's what makes your compliance with this even more confusing. As smears were first thrown at Milliband and his Da - Corbyn was the only one to go on TV and defend them both. Milliband said in 2018 that he knew JC wasn't an AS, and yet went on TV today to lie about AS being the reason for the motion.

The tory party has collapsed, so this is the very time he could offer hope to voters that a fairer society is on the way, instead he's going on about cannabis smoke ruining lives. Fcuk me, what an inspiring message - We'll be harsher on everyone than the tories. He's trailing in the poll against Sunak about who will make the better PM, so everyone knows they will have to vote for him because tories need a stint on the subs bench, but he's not offering any kind of vision that is making people want to vote for him.

I'm glad you mentioned 45-51, because that is the kind of government Corbyn wanted. The one that the "greatest generation" chose after the horrors of WWII. We don't need to be a country of cruelty, we can do better.

Hello Slim.
I get your anger at Starmer, as I have it too.
I also get you feel now Labour has failed you and likely will in government too.

That I don't agree on.
I still believe a better degree of fairness and compassion towards vulnerable plusvsi k and disabled will be more forthcoming from Labour than this heartless extreme bunch in now.

I still think the NHS will be better under Labour too.

So I can stick with them for those issues only if that's all they even had.

Immaterial of what the motion contained, my own main gripe with Corbyn is that he has NEVER accepted in full the Equalities commision conclusions AND directives given to deal with antisemetic issues.
He hasn't, and that's sadly for all and for him a fact.

I abhor antisemetism, I was personally got at on here with antisemitic inferences despite from my first understanding what it was, standing against it all my life.

There's NO real democracy in Parties now.
It's all about control.
That's why I now support PR.
It won't solve everything but it should make all Parties more accountable to themselves and the Country.

It's not a real democracy where a Party can get under 44% of the votes cast and get around 56/57% of the seats.
So having complete power over all voters and the Country.

Sunak hasn't made really big inroads to the best PM role.
Starmer never had a big lead over him.
The gap has narrowed from a single figure of 9 points ahead for Starmer to a 3 point lead for Starmer.
All Parties now have the worst possible leaders they could.
Polls change.
Plus figures and statistics can be made to say whatever one or the other want them too.

At present and I don't believe the really high leads for Labour myself.
All that seems to be is Sunak rates far higher than his Party.
While Starmer rates a bit lower than his Party.
They are meaningless though really.

I don't think IF Labour win the next election that it will be a one term situation.
Because Starmer has said PR is not for policy in THIS election.
So I can see him adopting it in the next election's manifesto.

That will unite every other Party in Westminster except the Cons.
I'm willing to wait and see and have that change without too much radical policy changes.
Blair made overtures to PR before he was PM.
He dumped it when he got a 179 overall majority.
Then he squandered a 160+majority after 2001.

Had he brought in PR for 2005.
We may never have had this Con led shambles from 2010, nor Brexit either.

I will use my time in Labour to fight with other members for the protection of the NHS and saving it.
For more compassion to the vulnerable and sick and disabled.

Also to fight for PR too to really shake up politics completely.
I think for the better.
With Parties having to work more closely together.

That's what I'll judge Labour on if it wins power.
Because none of those things will EVER come from this heartless Con party which has just got more power mad and extreme since 2010.

Yes too.
I think the 1945 to 1951 government is more like one needed now.
Definitely.
I'd hoped for that, however it's not at present forthcoming so that's another issue to strive for over the next 5 to 7 years.
In light of whatever the situation in the UK is during that time.

I'm not an admirer of Corbyn though.
His policies yes.
However he too could have adopted PR.
He says he believes in it, his then shadow Chancellor John McDonnell wanted it.
Corbyn threw it out too sadly.
He could have put the Lib Dems in a very difficult position had he adopted in in the 2019 manifesto.

That's my aim from my interest in politics and as a Labour party member.
Strive for PR, see more compassion to the vulnerable, sick and disabled and to build up again the NHS.
None of which the Cons will do or want to do even.

PR however only come from Labour adopting it as policy.
One thing is 100% sure.
The Cons never, EVER will adopt PR.
Because they would never have absolute power again and they know it.