[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It always seems very aggressive, the TRA campaigning and how they speak to and about anyone with concerns

If Posie Parker had worn that shirt and aimed it at trans or gay people in one of her many abusive, bigoted rants against minorities, you’d call her brave and strong for protecting her kids, let’s not play these games

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Liam-

If Posie Parker had worn that shirt and aimed it at trans or gay people in one of her many abusive, bigoted rants against minorities, you’d call her brave and strong for protecting her kids, let’s not play these games

I still don't understand how gay people are lumped into this category every time, could you explain that to me? My only concern here is women's rights. This has zero to do with gay people. Gay people rights to equality never conflicted with straight peoples rights, "trans rights" do conflict with women's rights

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I still don't understand how gay people are lumped into this category every time, could you explain that to me? My only concern here is women's rights. This has zero to do with gay people. Gay people rights to equality never conflicted with straight peoples rights, "trans rights" do conflict with women's rights

Notice there’s no mention of what I actually said, because it’s very obviously true and you can’t deny it

Gay people get ‘lumped’ in, because the people leading the anti-trans movement that are hero worshipped by the followers aren’t just anti-trans, they’re just bigots in general, who, if allowed to win in their quest to strip trans people of all their rights, won’t just stop at trans people, they’ll move onto gay people next, the likes or Parker join arms with literal Nazis at their rallies, they openly support religious extremist movements that want to get rid of things like gay adoption and marriage, as well as abortion.

The anti-trans movement doesn’t just affect trans people, there’s already instances of it being used against lesbians and straight cis women who don’t look ‘feminine’ enough in the eyes of the ‘we can always tell!!’ cult

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Notice there’s no mention of what I actually said, because it’s very obviously true and you can’t deny it

Gay people get ‘lumped’ in, because the people leading the anti-trans movement that are hero worshipped by the followers aren’t just anti-trans, they’re just bigots in general, who, if allowed to win in their quest to strip trans people of all their rights, won’t just stop at trans people, they’ll move onto gay people next, the likes or Parker join arms with literal Nazis at their rallies, they openly support religious extremist movements that want to get rid of things like gay adoption and marriage, as well as abortion.

The anti-trans movement doesn’t just affect trans people, there’s already instances of it being used against lesbians and straight cis women who don’t look ‘feminine’ enough in the eyes of the ‘we can always tell!!’ cult

I didn't respond to the rest of it because you're misrepresenting my issues by putting on another group of people I'm not even speaking about or have any issues with in this particular debate. I won't allow you to do that Liam and get away with it. Sorry about that.

Also, what exactly do you want me to say in response to the really hypothetical question you posed (pardon the pun)? It wasn't even a question it was you telling me how I'd respond to something that hasn't happened about someone you clearly believe I hero worship which by the way I don't so I'm not sure why you think that about me. Yeah I think she has some good points sometimes but I don't believe I've posted a whole lot about her on here In regards to the Nazi supporter stuff, as far as I know she's said she didn't invite those people to her event, she seems like someone who isn't afraid to say exactly what she thinks so if she did want and invite Nazis why wouldn't she embrace that? And if she's a secret Nazi lover, why invite them and expose herself?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Gay people get ‘lumped’ in, because the people leading the anti-trans movement that are hero worshipped by the followers aren’t just anti-trans, they’re just bigots in general, who, if allowed to win in their quest to strip trans people of all their rights, won’t just stop at trans people, they’ll move onto gay people next, the likes or Parker join arms with literal Nazis at their rallies, they openly support religious extremist movements that want to get rid of things like gay adoption and marriage, as well as abortion.

I don't disagree with any of this, I unfortunately think this is 100% correct and a lot of (perhaps at this point the majority of) the people who have lept into the trans debate are - most certainly - not there because they give a stuff about women. Most of them are on top of it all, raging misogynists.

Where I disagree with you is in believing that it's of utmost importance to continue an unwavering united front that ignores a multitude of safety concerns and proven, well understood mental wellbeing concerns (that cause direct harm TO gender-questioning individuals and the LGBTQ community) for fear of ceding ground to "the enemy".

There has to be a more sensible, more nuanced approach that ignores the thick, blinkered loud-mouths on both "sides". Where are the ****ing adults, I swear.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I don't disagree with any of this, I unfortunately think this is 100% correct and a lot of (perhaps at this point the majority of) the people who have lept into the trans debate are - most certainly - not there because they give a stuff about women. Most of them are on top of it all, raging misogynists.

Where I disagree with you is in believing that it's of utmost importance to continue an unwavering united front that ignores a multitude of safety concerns and proven, well understood mental wellbeing concerns (that cause direct harm TO gender-questioning individuals and the LGBTQ community) for fear of ceding ground to "the enemy".

There has to be a more sensible, more nuanced approach that ignores the thick, blinkered loud-mouths on both "sides". Where are the ****ing adults, I swear.

Like the Cass report as an example of things being ignored

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Notice there’s no mention of what I actually said, because it’s very obviously true and you can’t deny it

Gay people get ‘lumped’ in, because the people leading the anti-trans movement that are hero worshipped by the followers aren’t just anti-trans, they’re just bigots in general, who, if allowed to win in their quest to strip trans people of all their rights, won’t just stop at trans people, they’ll move onto gay people next, the likes or Parker join arms with literal Nazis at their rallies, they openly support religious extremist movements that want to get rid of things like gay adoption and marriage, as well as abortion.

The anti-trans movement doesn’t just affect trans people, there’s already instances of it being used against lesbians and straight cis women who don’t look ‘feminine’ enough in the eyes of the ‘we can always tell!!’ cult

I can understand where you're coming from on your other points.

But Lesbians are in a problematic scenario either way, because whilst I agree with you that people like Posie Parker most likely don't really have a Lesbian woman's best interest at heart, some of the Trans community want Lesbians to hook up with Trans people if they still have a penis, which obviously a Lesbian is not going to be comfortable with that for obvious reasons.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I can understand where you're coming from on your other points.

But Lesbians are in a problematic scenario either way, because whilst I agree with you that people like Posie Parker most likely don't really have a Lesbian woman's best interest at heart, some of the Trans community want Lesbians to hook up with Trans people if they still have a penis, which obviously a Lesbian is not going to be comfortable with that for obvious reasons.

That obvious reason being that trans women are biological men.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I can understand where you're coming from on your other points.

But Lesbians are in a problematic scenario either way, because whilst I agree with you that people like Posie Parker most likely don't really have a Lesbian woman's best interest at heart, some of the Trans community want Lesbians to hook up with Trans people if they still have a penis, which obviously a Lesbian is not going to be comfortable with that for obvious reasons.

Trans people aren’t trying to force lesbians to sleep with them, that’s just not happening and also, you can’t speak for all lesbians, some lesbians are perfectly happy to involved with trans women.

There’s recently been a dating app developed for lesbians which uses ai facial recognition to identity trans women to block them from using it and all it’s done so far is incorrectly identify cis lesbians as trans because they don’t fit the feminine bill.

There are more victims of transphobia than just trans people, but anti-trans people don’t care about that as long as trans people are punished for their identity

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Trans people aren’t trying to force lesbians to sleep with them, that’s just not happening and also, you can’t speak for all lesbians, some lesbians are perfectly happy to involved with trans women.

There’s recently been a dating app developed for lesbians which uses ai facial recognition to identity trans women to block them from using it and all it’s done so far is incorrectly identify cis lesbians as trans because they don’t fit the feminine bill.

There are more victims of transphobia than just trans people, but anti-trans people don’t care about that as long as trans people are punished for their identity

Read about the 'cotton ceiling'.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Trans people aren’t trying to force lesbians to sleep with them, that’s just not happening and also, you can’t speak for all lesbians, some lesbians are perfectly happy to involved with trans women.

I mean, it is happening. You can point out that it's not the majority of trans people doing it, or that the majority would disagree with, you could even (try to) say that the number is small enough for it not to be worth taking drastic action. But to say that it isn't happening it all is a clear and obvious lie, even from a standpoint of simple logic and maths. Of course there are people out there who would do that. And of course there are examples of it happening. There are entire groups and forums full of people insisting that lesbian women who won't date/sleep with trans women are "transphobic" and "gatekeeping".

Funnily enough the same is never said about gay men who aren't interested in trans men. It is, apparently, perfectly legitimate to have a preference for penis.

I can only assume that - as always - misogyny is part of the equation, with the gay male community struggling to understand why any gay woman or straight man might legitimately prefer vaginas, and not secretly be hankering after feminine-presenting people with penises.

In fact, anecdotally I would say that many gay men are far more likely to take issue with a straight man who outright states no interest in trans women, than they are to take issue with another gay man who states they have no interest in trans men.

"Do as I say not as I do" and all that, I suppose.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Trans people aren’t trying to force lesbians to sleep with them, that’s just not happening and also, you can’t speak for all lesbians, some lesbians are perfectly happy to involved with trans women.

There’s recently been a dating app developed for lesbians which uses ai facial recognition to identity trans women to block them from using it and all it’s done so far is incorrectly identify cis lesbians as trans because they don’t fit the feminine bill.

There are more victims of transphobia than just trans people, but anti-trans people don’t care about that as long as trans people are punished for their identity

I agree that most Transwomen don't want to force Lesbians to sleep with them, if the Lesbian is uncomfortable with that option.

But there are a vocal minority out there that are trying to accuse Lesbians of being Transphobic if they don't want to sleep with them.

And I'm sorry Liam, but sexuality has a lot to do with the Anatomy down below, and to put it across crudely, a Lesbian likes Vaginas, if a Transperson has a penis and then pressures a Lesbian into having sex with them otherwise she's "Transphobic" then that is wrong imo.

Fair enough to the Lesbians that You're on about, that are willing to go with a Transwoman that might still have a Penis, because I don't care as long as she's a willing participant.

But I am confident in saying that a lot of Lesbians want a woman or Transwoman to have a Vagina, I know that it's not the nicest thing for me to say, but it is the truth, and sometimes the truth isn't always nice.

And AI technology is just a menace to society at large the way it's currently going, especially in cases such as dating sites, because of the mishaps that AI can make (such as the one that you've pointed out, which is terrible) and in my view I don't get why Transwomen can't be on a Dating App anyway? Just let the women decide for themselves if they want to go with them or not, without facing judgement for whatever they decided to do.

And I do agree with you that if the Far Right got what they wanted with wiping the Trans community off the face of the earth that another group of people would be targeted (and considering a lot of these Far Right trends start in America, it will probably be between gay men, black people, and Mexicans.)

I just do wish that some (not all obviously,) of the Trans community wouldn't give the Far Right ammunition to use against them, because even the middle ground sided against them during the Hogwarts Legacy debacle for example, because it escalated out of control.