[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Gun ownership is written into the constitution if the USA. Not sure why you're bringing up the constitutional rights of another country to embroider your argument. Mexico and Brazil both outdo the USA in firearms deaths but no one ever mentions that. I wonder why...?

I wasn't aware the conversation purely centred around the UK, particularly as the conversation has centred mainly on a worldwide sporting competition and a Boxer from Algeria.

I bought it up because it's a good example of something posing a risk, yet the rights of the citizens is still given priority. My point was many people who support gun ownership, despite it being the leading cause of death amongst children in the USA, will not support trans women being in women's spaces because it is a risk to women despite the risk they speak about being incredibly low. That doesn't make sense... and goes some way to prove that for many (not saying you or others on this thread) they don't actually care about the risk to women, they just don't like Trans people.

And it's that kind of attitude which is why it's risky linking criminal cis men pretending to be trans to actual trans people, which many people do.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I wasn't aware the conversation purely centred around the UK, particularly as the conversation has centred mainly on a worldwide sporting competition and a Boxer from Algeria.

I bought it up because it's a good example of something posing a risk, yet the rights of the citizens is still given priority. My point was many people who support gun ownership, despite it being the leading cause of death amongst children in the USA, will not support trans women being in women's spaces because it is a risk to women despite the risk they speak about being incredibly low. That doesn't make sense... and goes some way to prove that for many (not saying you or others on this thread) they don't actually care about the risk to women, they just don't like Trans people.

And it's that kind of attitude which is why it's risky linking criminal cis men pretending to be trans to actual trans people, which many people do.

Fine. Just wondered by you wouldn't use examples of UK legislation. Nothing about this story us connected to the USA. Not the boxers and not the Olympics in question.

For the record, I have no problem with trans people. I have a problem with self-identification. It was always going to cause problems and give an advantage to abusers and at the same time make the lives of genuine trans people much harder.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Livia

Fine. Just wondered by you wouldn't use examples of UK legislation. Nothing about this story us connected to the USA. Not the boxers and not the Olympics in question.

For the record, I have no problem with trans people. I have a problem with self-identification. It was always going to cause problems and give an advantage to abusers and at the same time make the lives of genuine trans people much harder.

I agree with all of this.

It’s not just a simple issue of letting trans women into women only safe spaces…. It’s about trying to keep cis women safe.

I haven’t met a single person who agrees with this that hates trans people. I’ve even met a trans people who said this (she also said that she as a trans woman would have an advantage over a cis female, despite having taking hormones for years)

I’m not saying that there aren’t bigots who just use these opinions to try and hurt trans people. We all know that. But we also know that there are men out there who can literally just say “I identify as a woman” and enter cis female safe spaces without warning or care

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Fine. Just wondered by you wouldn't use examples of UK legislation. Nothing about this story us connected to the USA. Not the boxers and not the Olympics in question.

For the record, I have no problem with trans people. I have a problem with self-identification. It was always going to cause problems and give an advantage to abusers and at the same time make the lives of genuine trans people much harder.

They were just examples that came to mind, probably because I read more about US politics than I do UK stuff.

I am sure you do, and I do think your worry is legitimate, but I also worry about giving ammunition to bigots for issues that aren't as big as they're made out to be because I see it happen time and time again. It's a very nuanced subject and I respect the opinion on everyone I have discussed this with here today. It's too complicated and difficult to not.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by BBXX

They were just examples that came to mind, probably because I read more about US politics than I do UK stuff.

I am sure you do, and I do think your worry is legitimate, but I also worry about giving ammunition to bigots for issues that aren't as big as they're made out to be because I see it happen time and time again. It's a very nuanced subject and I respect the opinion on everyone I have discussed this with here today. It's too complicated and difficult to not.

The First Minister of Scotland lost her job over this "issues that aren't as big as they're made out to be "

and it was a big feature in Harris losing so Hugely in the USA

“Crazy liberal Kamala is for they/them, president Trump is for you,” declares
one Harris-Walz attack ad airing in the battleground states. Another simply
proclaims: “No men in girls’ sports.”

USA voters agreed

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

The First Minister of Scotland lost her job over this "issues that aren't as big as they're made out to be "

and it was a big feature in Harris losing so Hugely in the USA

“Crazy liberal Kamala is for they/them, president Trump is for you,” declares
one Harris-Walz attack ad airing in the battleground states. Another simply
proclaims: “No men in girls’ sports.”

USA voters agreed

I am yet to see solid evidence of men pretending to be women and then attacking women on a widespread level. That is what I mean by it not being as big as it's being made out to be.

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I wasn't aware the conversation purely centred around the UK, particularly as the conversation has centred mainly on a worldwide sporting competition and a Boxer from Algeria.

I bought it up because it's a good example of something posing a risk, yet the rights of the citizens is still given priority. My point was many people who support gun ownership, despite it being the leading cause of death amongst children in the USA, will not support trans women being in women's spaces because it is a risk to women despite the risk they speak about being incredibly low. That doesn't make sense... and goes some way to prove that for many (not saying you or others on this thread) they don't actually care about the risk to women, they just don't like Trans people.

And it's that kind of attitude which is why it's risky linking criminal cis men pretending to be trans to actual trans people, which many people do.

Amen