[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Of course they can celebrate their culture - just not as publicly as they would like - why do they feel the need to 'shout it from the rooftops' all the time.

And as a nurse - I know all about blood pressure - and can assure you mine is fine!

Does this just apply to immigrants or everyone? Say if a totally Brittish person decided one day to convert to Islam would he or she be allowed to celebrate their religion since thy were born within our culture? Or wouldn't it be allowed as they'll be classed as the same as those evil upstarting muslims that want to destroy our culture?

How long does a person need to live here before they are classed as a Brittish citizen? Because a few posts back someone was slamming 2nd and 3rd generation muslims, surely if you are born and raised here you are as brittish as everyone else? (This one's not aimed at you Wombai as I think it was InOne who said that)

I just wanted a little clarification before I make a point.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Does this just apply to immigrants or everyone? Say if a totally Brittish person decided one day to convert to Islam would he or she be allowed to celebrate their religion since thy were born within our culture? Or wouldn't it be allowed as they'll be classed as the same as those evil upstarting muslims that want to destroy our culture?

How long does a person need to live here before they are classed as a Brittish citizen? Because a few posts back someone was slamming 2nd and 3rd generation muslims, surely if you are born and raised here you are as brittish as everyone else? (This one's not aimed at you Wombai as I think it was InOne who said that)

I just wanted a little clarification before I make a point.

I was slamming their attitude, they are the ones who have the most identity crisis. And I didn't say Muslims, it was immigrants. Well being born here and raised it could make you British, but it all depends on how they class themselves. With Muslims especially who live in Ghettos, alot will probaby class themselves as where their parents come from, as they don't really intergrate. It is becoming the say as the way some Jews cut themselves off in London and Manchester.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Does this just apply to immigrants or everyone? Say if a totally Brittish person decided one day to convert to Islam would he or she be allowed to celebrate their religion since thy were born within our culture? Or wouldn't it be allowed as they'll be classed as the same as those evil upstarting muslims that want to destroy our culture?

How long does a person need to live here before they are classed as a Brittish citizen? Because a few posts back someone was slamming 2nd and 3rd generation muslims, surely if you are born and raised here you are as brittish as everyone else? (This one's not aimed at you Wombai as I think it was InOne who said that)

I just wanted a little clarification before I make a point.

If you asked most British Muslims what they most consider themselves to be - British or Muslim - I would bet most, if not all, would say Muslim.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

If you asked most British Muslims what they most consider themselves to be - British or Muslim - I would bet most, if not all, would say Muslim.

Exactly, think they even did a poll on it.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Exactly, think they even did a poll on it.

Find that poll then! The poll I found showed most muslims celebrated being British

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

YES!!! Because the British made it that way! British culture allowed democracy and economic growth. A lot of British have been and many still are religious - but they haven't let religous beliefs and superstition hold them back and prevent economic progression.

The Muslim religion and culture created the dictorial and impoverished societies that they left in the first place.

Thats to do with social and historical factors largely, including education, a history of being invaded by different cultures, military might and power over most of the world...not to do with religion itself

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

I was slamming their attitude, they are the ones who have the most identity crisis. And I didn't say Muslims, it was immigrants. Well being born here and raised it could make you British, but it all depends on how they class themselves. With Muslims especially who live in Ghettos, alot will probaby class themselves as where their parents come from, as they don't really intergrate. It is becoming the say as the way some Jews cut themselves off in London and Manchester.

people dont cut themselves off, they live in areas where there is familiarity, work, family, people dont discriminate and treat them differently...not because they dont want to mix....more like the other way round there

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Well, you seem to think it is only me wombai LT and arista that share these views. Well it is not, and it's not a minoirty either. You can bounce 'racism' about all you like, but all we do is tell it how we see it.

yeh "how you see it" your blinkered and uneducated view...and I see more people arguing against it than for it

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Thats to do with social and historical factors largely, including education, a history of being invaded by different cultures, military might and power over most of the world...not to do with religion itself

All those mentioned above are part of culture - our culture is what gives us the lifestlye we lead now! We have EARNED it!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

yeh "how you see it" your blinkered and uneducated view...and I see more people arguing against it than for it

You see what you want to see - nothing more, nothing less!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

people dont cut themselves off, they live in areas where there is familiarity, work, family, people dont discriminate and treat them differently...not because they dont want to mix....more like the other way round there

Other cultures have managed to intergrate well over the years. Yet Muslims still choose to live seculded.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

yeh "how you see it" your blinkered and uneducated view...and I see more people arguing against it than for it

So you say, but for some reason you seem to think you're speaking for 'most' in Britain, when you're clearly not!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

All those mentioned above are part of culture - our culture is what gives us the lifestlye we lead now! We have EARNED it!

Yes and muslims have been part of our culture for some time too. Part of the reason we are progressive as a nation is because we have been exposed to different cultures over the years

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

So you say, but for some reason you seem to think you're speaking for 'most' in Britain, when you're clearly not!

Well so far Im the only one whos managed to find any evidence that I do..."clearly not" lol FAIL

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Other cultures have managed to intergrate well over the years. Yet Muslims still choose to live seculded.

"muslims still choose to live secluded" Wrong, muslims (on the whole) havent any more than anyone else.

[NettoSuperstar!]

The Swiss have a piss poor record on womens rights and they have the cheek to use that as part of their argument for banning minarets! Women didnt get the right to vote til 1971 and some didnt even get the vote til 1991 (yes your reading that right 1991!!)

http://www.swisster.ch/news/un-raise...-womens-rights

http://www.awid.org/eng/Women-s-Righ...n-New-Minarets

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

The Swiss have a piss poor record on womens rights and they have the cheek to use that as part of their argument for banning minarets! Women didnt get the right to vote til 1971 and some didnt even get the vote til 1991 (yes your reading that right 1991!!)

http://www.swisster.ch/news/un-raise...-womens-rights

http://www.awid.org/eng/Women-s-Righ...n-New-Minarets

wow!! That's crazy isn't it??? I never knew that.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You see what you want to see - nothing more, nothing less!

No I go out of my way to see the truth of the situation, not the fear and hysteria about muslims the far right want to portray

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

wow!! That's crazy isn't it??? I never knew that.

Isnt it? I only heard it today on the radio, bunch of hypocrites

[arista]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

The Swiss have a piss poor record on womens rights and they have the cheek to use that as part of their argument for banning minarets! Women didnt get the right to vote til 1971 and some didnt even get the vote til 1991 (yes your reading that right 1991!!)

So What
Its there Right.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

wow!! That's crazy isn't it??? I never knew that.

And that proves what exactly! There you go getting all worked up and excited that you found some information that apparently shows that Swiss women didn't get the vote until recently - but even if true - what exactly is your point?

Women in Switzerland today have freedom and equality! They have choices in how they live their lives. That has bugger all to do with whether Switzerland as a whole wants to protect the religious and cultural identity of their own country!

Some people do get so carried away!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

The Swiss have a piss poor record on womens rights and they have the cheek to use that as part of their argument for banning minarets! Women didnt get the right to vote til 1971 and some didnt even get the vote til 1991 (yes your reading that right 1991!!)

http://www.swisster.ch/news/un-raise...-womens-rights

http://www.awid.org/eng/Women-s-Righ...n-New-Minarets

And that proves what exactly! There you go getting all worked up and excited that you found some information that apparently shows that Swiss women didn't get the vote until recently - but even if true - what exactly is your point?

Women in Switzerland today have freedom and equality! They have choices in how they live their lives. That has bugger all to do with whether Switzerland as a whole wants to protect the religious and cultural identity of their own country!

Some people do get so carried away!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

And that proves what exactly! There you go getting all worked up and excited that you found some information that apparently shows that Swiss women didn't get the vote until recently - but even if true - what exactly is your point?

Women in Switzerland today have freedom and equality! They have choices in how they live their lives. That has bugger all to do with whether Switzerland as a whole wants to protect the religious and cultural identity of their own country!

Some people do get so carried away!

Shes not getting worked up and excited about anything lol! Its a fact that is quite astounding to anyone. And the point is the oppression of women has little to do with religion, it occurs everywhere, that is just an excuse some people use! The Swiss continue to have a poor record on womens rights also.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

And that proves what exactly! There you go getting all worked up and excited that you found some information that apparently shows that Swiss women didn't get the vote until recently - but even if true - what exactly is your point?

Women in Switzerland today have freedom and equality! They have choices in how they live their lives. That has bugger all to do with whether Switzerland as a whole wants to protect the religious and cultural identity of their own country!

Some people do get so carried away!

I wasn't getting worked up and excited.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I wasn't getting worked up and excited.

Sorry - I clicked on the wrong post. My response was mean't for Netto!