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StGeorge · 16-06-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Yes it could, I don't think anyone is getting annoyed or expecting people to just know about Irish names and how they're pronounced if that's thepoint you're trying to make?

You did say Gallagher got you annoyed once.

LiquidGold · 16-06-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

When i first saw Caoimhe's name i was pronouncing it Kay-oi-me.
But then i found out it is pronounced Kee-va, and wonder how such variance on the spelling is acheived?

It's the same with Padraig ( Pad-raig) being pronounced as Poric, and Siobahn (Si-O-barn) being pronounced as Sha-vorn.

Is there some sort of grammer rule here that can be used to ascertain other similar spellings, or is it just a matter of an interpretation?

irish spelling is always proper weird! i have to keep checking her name spelling if im going to write about her in this forum

. remember orlaith from bb6 but it was pronounced orlah haha

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

You did say Gallagher got you annoyed once.

oh lol, not in a serious way though, in the shout at the TV but they can't hear you kind of way!

Nemo123 · 16-06-2010, 07:50 PM

How old is the English language?

StGeorge · 16-06-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I really don't think he has any interest other than to insult us tbh

Yeah i guess, but its to be expected on here and im surprised at the response i have got for what was just an inquisitive question. I did expect more trolls and then some sort of racist biggoted slanging match.

Oooo_get_her · 16-06-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Yes it could, I don't think anyone is getting annoyed or expecting people to just know about Irish names and how they're pronounced if that's thepoint you're trying to make?

Well no - The first time an non-Irish person comes across names like Caoimhe, Niamh, Aoife, etc. the pronunciation is going to be tough - but once told the vast majority of people remember.

It does bug me a little when a name like Caitlin (said Kathleen) gets changed over the years to be pronounced Kate-Lyn. It doesn't bug me as in 'they're wrong, I'm right', it just sounds wrong to my ear.

But that's language for you These things are in constant flux. At the end of the day there is no right and wrong, only tradition, convention and innovation. With names what is important is to respect how the person him/herself pronounces his/her own name. Beyond that is nit-picking really.

Though I do like nit-picking

StGeorge · 16-06-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidGold

irish spelling is always proper weird! i have to keep checking her name spelling if im going to write about her in this forum

. remember orlaith from bb6 but it was pronounced orlah haha

I can actually see how Orlaith becomes Orlah, but it is if she was called Jeff that i would say WTF?

Nemo123 · 16-06-2010, 07:55 PM

The Spanish send their kids to Ireland to learn English because we speak it better than the English do.

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oooo_get_her

Well no - The first time an non-Irish person comes across names like Caoimhe, Niamh, Aoife, etc. the pronunciation is going to be tough - but once told the vast majority of people remember.

It does bug me a little when a name like Caitlin (said Kathleen) gets changed over the years to be pronounced Kate-Lyn. It doesn't bug me as in 'they're wrong, I'm right', it just sounds wrong to my ear.

But that's language for you These things are in constant flux. At the end of the day there is no right and wrong, only tradition, convention and innovation. With names what is important is to respect how the person him/herself pronounces his/her own name. Beyond that is nit-picking really.

Though I do like nit-picking

I agree with you, shur people outside of munster pronounce my name wrong (it's wrong if it isn't my way

) ! So people outside of Ireland don't have a hope really!

StGeorge · 16-06-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo123

How old is the English language?

Blimey Nemo....the spoken language has been evolved and barstardized from various influences including Celt, Norse(viking) Norman, Roman, Germanic etc, but the written form started to evolve from around the time of the Canterbury Tales to what we know today. Not 100% there but near abouts i think.

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

I can actually see how Orlaith becomes Orlah, but it is if she was called Jeff that i would say WTF?

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

I can actually see how Orlaith becomes Orlah, but it is if she was called Jeff that i would say WTF?

actually on that point how do you pronounce "through" that's an English word

ElProximo · 16-06-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

*yawns*

Yawn nothing.

Duly noted that when in a foreign country the ethnic person (chamomile) should expect and accept that her name will be pronounced by their (in this case white peoples) rules.
This is true for me overseas and in foreign countries. I don't get to insist they pronounce the roman letters as MY country expects it.

Cahrmel can be 'Keveen' in your 'country' but in London she ought to expect and accept she is 'ko-ma-hair' and really she ought to be happy about it and be complimented she is treated fairly and appropriately by the city people.

Funny but at the launch night I briefly assumed 'Shabby' was the Irish one.. because of the name obviously.
So at least we straightened that out.

Nemo123 · 16-06-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Blimey Nemo....the spoken language has been evolved and barstardized from various influences including Celt, Norse(viking) Norman, Roman, Germanic etc, but the written form started to evolve from around the time of the Canterbury Tales to what we know today. Not 100% there but near abouts i think.

So that's about 600 years after Irish monks were writing the Book Of Kells.

StGeorge · 16-06-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo123

The Spanish send their kids to Ireland to learn English because we speak it better than the English do.

Ouch

Patrick · 16-06-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

When i first saw Caoimhe's name i was pronouncing it Kay-oi-me.
But then i found out it is pronounced Kee-va, and wonder how such variance on the spelling is acheived?

It's the same with Padraig ( Pad-raig) being pronounced as Poric, and Siobahn (Si-O-barn) being pronounced as Sha-vorn.

Is there some sort of grammer rule here that can be used to ascertain other similar spellings, or is it just a matter of an interpretation?

LMFAO

Um, No.

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Yawn nothing.

Duly noted that when in a foreign country the ethnic person (chamomile) should expect and accept that her name will be pronounced by their (in this case white peoples) rules.
This is true for me overseas and in foreign countries. I don't get to insist they pronounce the roman letters as MY country expects it.

Cahrmel can be 'Keveen' in your 'country' but in London she ought to expect and accept she is 'ko-ma-hair' and really she ought to be happy about it and be complimented she is treated fairly and appropriately by the city people.

Funny but at the launch night I briefly assumed 'Shabby' was the Irish one.. because of the name obviously.
So at least we straightened that out.

You're mother must be very proud..........................

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

LMFAO

Um, No.

actually my dads name is Padraig and we do pronounce it Poric

StGeorge · 16-06-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

actually on that point how do you pronounce "through" that's an English word

same as threw

although looking at it ..it should be thruff as in thr-rough.

Niamh. · 16-06-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

same as threw

although looking at it ..it should be thruff as in thr-rough.

also enough, so there are some English words that behave like ours!

Oooo_get_her · 16-06-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo123

How old is the English language?

Anglo-Saxon dialects can be traced back to about 450AD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Blimey Nemo....the spoken language has been evolved and barstardized from various influences including Celt, Norse(viking) Norman, Roman, Germanic etc, but the written form started to evolve from around the time of the Canterbury Tales to what we know today. Not 100% there but near abouts i think.

Old English is a very clearly Germanic language (or rather group of close dialects that are referred to as a language for the sake of clarity). You are completely right about the other influences as it evolved into Middle English and on to Modern.

I know Wiki can be a bit hit and miss but the article on Old English is OK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English