[Abhorsen]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I couldn't care either way really.

Then why post?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

Then why post?

Because it's my opinion that I don't care and I'm allowed to share my apathy on the matter.

Although the point about muslim countries and the UK has a big flaw, By large we're a non denominational democracy so we're allowed to wear what we want as it's our right as residents of the UK while in strict Muslim countries that right might not exist so the comparision doesn't really work as our government types are different.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because it's my opinion that I don't care and I'm allowed to share my apathy on the matter.

Although the point about muslim countries and the UK has a big flaw, By large we're a non denominational democracy so we're allowed to wear what we want as it's our right as residents of the UK while in strict Muslim countries that right might not exist so the comparision doesn't really work as our government types are different.

What about just not doing out of respect for the country they are in? What you said basically shows how backwards the Middle East is in some places.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by InOne

What about just not doing out of respect for the country they are in? What you said basically shows how backwards the Middle East is in some places.

The point is for better or worse we have the right to wear what we want and it would be hypocrtical if we didn't offer that right to everyone. I'm not defendng middle eastern attitudes or governments I just said that to highlight the differences.

At the end of the day if someone chooses to wear a Burkha then I couldn't care less, obviously there should be some restrictions similar to hats or hoodies when it comes to security measures but ultimately people can wear what they want to wear for all I care.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The point is for better or worse we have the right to wear what we want and it would be hypocrtical if we didn't offer that right to everyone. I'm not defendng middle eastern attitudes or governments I just said that to highlight the differences.

At the end of the day if someone chooses to wear a Burkha then I couldn't care less, obviously there should be some restrictions similar to hats or hoodies when it comes to security measures but ultimately people can wear what they want to wear for all I care.

It's just a shame British Muslim Women wear it is a trend kind of then when really it is a symbol of opression. They probably don't even know what goes in those kind of countaries. I'm sure if they did they wouldn't be wearing it, unless they're forced, of course...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by InOne

It's just a shame British Muslim Women wear it is a trend kind of then when really it is a symbol of opression. They probably don't even know what goes in those kind of countaries. I'm sure if they did they wouldn't be wearing it, unless they're forced, of course...

I don't agree with the message of the Burkha but we can't ban it either without being hypocrites. If someone chooses to wear it then there's little room for debate really.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't agree with the message of the Burkha but we can't ban it either without being hypocrites. If someone chooses to wear it then there's little room for debate really.

I'm sure it's not the first time the goverment have been hypocrites, so there is still hope.

[Abhorsen]

Originally Posted by InOne

It's just a shame British Muslim Women wear it is a trend kind of then when really it is a symbol of opression. ...

Also, why are British troops fighting in those countries because of that kind of oppression while it is OK here.

[Abhorsen]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The point is for better or worse we have the right to wear what we want and it would be hypocrtical if we didn't offer that right to everyone. I'm not defendng middle eastern attitudes or governments I just said that to highlight the differences.

At the end of the day if someone chooses to wear a Burkha then I couldn't care less, obviously there should be some restrictions similar to hats or hoodies when it comes to security measures but ultimately people can wear what they want to wear for all I care.

Hang on a minute, you say "obviously there should be some restrictions", you can't say in one breath there should be freedom for burkas just because you don't care about them but in the next breath you say someone can't wear a hooded top.

And why are you making value judgements about so called 'hoodies' while you assume that anyone wearing a burka must be OK?

Explain how a hooded top is LESS of a security issue than a burka? Remember - anyone could wear a burka if they choose to under the current system.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

Hang on a minute, you say "obviously there should be some restrictions", you can't say in one breath there should be freedom for burkas just because you don't care about them but in the next breath you say someone can't wear a hooded top.

And why are you making value judgements about so called 'hoodies' while you assume that anyone wearing a burka must be OK?

Explain how a hooded top is LESS of a security issue than a burka? Remember - anyone could wear a burka if they choose to under the current system.

Actually I was making a point that hats and Hoodies can't be worn in some places due to security concerns and that Burkhas should be treated the same, It shouldn't be banned but it shouldn't get any special treatment either. People are free to wear hoodies and hats but some places for CCTV reasons and such they disallow it, I'm saying if people want to wear a burkha then fine but it should adhere to the same rules as other clothing as well.

I thought that was very clear.

[brian3]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I think the principle of them abiding by our laws is very important! It isn't just about people being able to wear what they like - it is also about how women have equality and freedom in this country and the wearing of the burka clearly flies in the face of that! No exceptions for anyone!

But many Muslim women chose of their own free will to wear the burka. Are you not taking away their freedom to decide they want to wear one?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Maybe - but Muslim womens' freedoms shouldn't override other principles inherrent to British culture! Many women are offended to see such a symbol of female oppression rubbed in their faces on the streets of Britain! This is not a Muslim country - and Muslims should respect that, like it or not!

Do you live in a burka factory?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Do you live in a burka factory?

You jest - but as a male it is hardly surprising you don't understand or probably care how insulting such a symbol of female oppression can be to British women who have fought hard for equality for many decades!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I think the principle of them abiding by our laws is very important! It isn't just about people being able to wear what they like - it is also about how women have equality and freedom in this country and the wearing of the burka clearly flies in the face of that! No exceptions for anyone!

Just not the freedom to choose ones headwear?

I couldn't give a rats ass if the woman wants to wear the burka herself. People are free to be as stupid as they want. What you are proposing is not freedom. It's the illusion of freedom. It's 'you are free to do what I think it's okay for you to do!'.

Let them wear what they want. Anything else is simply straight up hypocrisy. It's that black and white.

[Abhorsen]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Although the point about muslim countries and the UK has a big flaw, By large we're a non denominational democracy so we're allowed to wear what we want as it's our right as residents of the UK while in strict Muslim countries that right might not exist so the comparision doesn't really work as our government types are different.

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

LOL.

It's like I have fallen out of a wormhole and into the Have Your Say section of a Daily Mail article.

Nobody really gives a flying fuck about ol' queenie, do they? I'm sure if you want to get anal about it then you actually are 'subjects' but in the minds of the people they certainly don't see themselves as subjects. At least the vast, vast majority don't. Most don't give her a moments thought. A lot of people see her as the figurehead of a dated concept with all the cultural influence of a fucking cement mixer.

The queen is dead.

Celebrate.

[Abhorsen]

Originally Posted by Stu

LOL.

It's like I have fallen out of a wormhole and into the Have Your Say section of a Daily Mail article.

Nobody really gives a flying fuck about ol' queenie, do they? I'm sure if you want to get anal about it then you actually are 'subjects' but in the minds of the people they certainly don't see themselves as subjects. At least the vast, vast majority don't. Most don't give her a moments thought. A lot of people see her as the figurehead of a dated concept with all the cultural influence of a fucking cement mixer.

The queen is dead.

Celebrate.

Wow, how eloquent. LOL.

You have obviously just fallen out of bed, after dossing all day and couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

'Kicking' back at the *man* while dossing on the dole are you? Or still living off Mum and Dad?

You have taken the quote out of context and made yourself look stupid.

This isn't about the Queen. Grow up.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

Wow, how eloquent. LOL.

You have obviously just fallen out of bed, after dossing all day and couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

'Kicking' back at the *man* while dossing on the dole are you? Or still living off Mum and Dad?

You have taken the quote out of context and made yourself look stupid.

This isn't about the Queen. Grow up.

The assumption being that only soap dodging crusties don't like the monarchy?

I read the whole thread, and I know it's not about The Queen. I just decided to comment on that little part anyway because it made me chuckle. You seem to have this huge misunderstanding of how forums work. See ... people generally post opinions without having to pend approval from you to see does it 'fit' in the thread or should they have 'bothered' to post it.

I got a job in HMV. I'm not quite an astrophysicist but if you pop in I can get you a 20% discount on some Michael Ball CD's.

Helmet.

[brian3]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

How do you know that. A 5 minuet interview with a couple of extremist on the news

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

The Queen doesn't choose anything as she holds no de facto authority over this country and only exists as a ceremonial head of state. We live in a multifaith society and also a democracy where people are permitted to follow any religion, ideology or philosophy they like. Live and let live.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

Technically we are a Christian country BUT we're not ruled by a religion say in the same way that some middle eastern countries are, that's what I'm getting at, Our government doesn't consist of only christians there's a plethora of faiths and such. We're non denominational in a way that doesn't really place any religion higher then another despite being traditional country...Do you get what I mean?

As for the part about the Queen, most of her power is typically token nowadays. She couldn't force anyone's beliefs in this day and age realistically.

As for your last point, they can think what they like it does no harm. It's not like Islam's suddenly gonna take over and Shariah law will govern the land if we don't ban Burkhas.