[arista]

"Burnley College. Bosses claim the ban was necessary for 'security reasons'
but the University of Central Lancashire,
which runs courses from the same building, has not implemented the policy

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz10SQs3Da0



Its a Logical Start for this College.
It makes Utter Sense.

Sign Of The Times.

[Tom]

Someone emailed Granada News who goes there and said its a security issue, hoodies, scarves, hats and so on are all banned too

[King Gizzard]

security issue, ''I'm going to stab you with my hoody!''

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Nate

security issue, ''I'm going to stab you with my hoody!''

No so they can identify people so someone who isn't meant to be there isn't there. My college had a similar policy

[arista]

Originally Posted by Tom

No so they can identify people so someone who isn't meant to be there isn't there. My college had a similar policy

That makes sense.

[Jessica.]

They could easily get a clever person to wear their 'peep scarf' and do their exams and nobody would notice.

Scarves and veils and stuff should be banned in all schools.

[Beastie]

What if it is reaaaaaaaaaally cold and you want to wear a hat, scarf and gloves?

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by thebeast

What if it is reaaaaaaaaaally cold and you want to wear a hat, scarf and gloves?

You take them off before you go in the door.

[King Gizzard]

Ahh ok

[Lee.]

I think they should be banned everywhere, not just schools!

[Angus]

What would happen if every student decided to turn up to college with their faces covered? FGS, I am sick to death of muslims using the faith card to get away with avoiding security measures, when it is a fact that the full face burkha is NOT a religious requirement in the Qu'ran. It's about time there was a complete ban on it just as there is in France. I don't see why our safety and security should be put at risk for a minority who insist on wearing what is, after all, just a cultural uniform, not a religious requirement. As a woman, I also find it offensive that in this day and age, woman are subjugated by such an abhorrent garment.

[Jack_]

If one religious/cultural garment/symbol gets banned - then so should the rest. So crosses and crusifix necklaces etc all have to go. It's not fair otherwise.

It's either it all gets banned or none of it gets banned. Personally, I'd rather the former, I've always thought religion is the root of all evil.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

If one religious/cultural garment/symbol gets banned - then so should the rest. So crosses and crusifix necklaces etc all have to go. It's not fair otherwise.

It's either it all gets banned or none of it gets banned. Personally, I'd rather the former, I've always thought religion is the root of all evil.

The Burkha symbolises oppresion of women, it is not a religious symbol in the same way a crucifix is.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by happyland

The Burkha symbolises oppresion of women, it is not a religious symbol in the same way a crucifix is.

It doesn't make a difference - it is still associated with religion and thus if one religious symbol [or whatever you want to call it] is banned, all of them are. You can't have it one way to suit some people and not another, that's just unfair. It either all goes or it all stays - simple.

[Tom]

Crucifixes are fashion statements now too, you won't find a burka in Topshop

[Shaun]

*designs a range of designer burkas*

they're neon pink. you can also get leopard-prints.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack_

If one religious/cultural garment/symbol gets banned - then so should the rest. So crosses and crusifix necklaces etc all have to go. It's not fair otherwise.

It's either it all gets banned or none of it gets banned. Personally, I'd rather the former, I've always thought religion is the root of all evil.

The difference being that this is an historically christian country, and those that come here know that and should respect our culture. I think we do more than enough to accommodate other people's faiths and cultures but in the case of the burkha which actually compromises national security, it's about time it was banned in circumstances where it is crucial for the safety and security of others. Why should one person's "human rights" to wear what they want, compromise someone else's "human rights" to feel safe and secure?

Last time I looked no christian adornments or apparel threatened anyone else's security. A bit of common sense is needed here.

After all if you are going to play the "culture" card, is it acceptable then to allow honour killings, polygamy, and marriage at 12 years of age because that is the cultural norm in certain countries whose citizens CHOOSE to come to the UK? For the umpteenth time, the burkha is a symbol of female subjugation, imposed on women by MEN not some divine entity. It offends me every time I see a women wearing one.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by angus58

The difference being that this is an historically christian country, and those that come here know that and should respect our culture. I think we do more than enough to accommodate other people's faiths and cultures but in the case of the burkha which actually compromises national security, it's about time it was banned in circumstances where it is crucial for the safety and security of others. Why should one person's "human rights" to wear what they want, compromise someone else's "human rights" to feel safe and secure?

Last time I looked no christian adornments or apparel threatened anyone else's security. A bit of common sense is needed here.

After all if you are going to play the "culture" card, is it acceptable then to allow honour killings, polygamy, and marriage at 12 years of age because that is the cultural norm in certain countries whose citizens CHOOSE to come to the UK? For the umpteenth time, the burkha is a symbol of female subjugation, imposed on women by MEN not some divine entity. It offends me every time I see a women wearing one.

I'm not saying people don't have a right to feel safe, they do. But you can't ban one religious item and not the rest. That's unfair.

Whether we are 'historically a Christian country' or not, it all has to go.

Ban religion completely and then maybe we'll be living in a slightly safer planet.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm not saying people don't have a right to feel safe, they do. But you can't ban one religious item and not the rest. That's unfair.

Whether we are 'historically a Christian country' or not, it all has to go.

Ban religion completely and then maybe we'll be living in a slightly safer planet.

I repeat, the burkha is NOT a religious requirement, it is a cultural one, and one that is offensive to most independent, EQUAL women. You, not being a woman, seem to find that hard to understand. Since it is NOT a requirement of the muslim religion, there is absolutely no reason why women who want the freedom and equality to attend college with their male counterparts, should wear it at all. If they want to retain their so called "modesty" why not just wear the hijab which allows the face to be seen?

Oh, and good luck to any government that ever tried to ban ALL religions - cue world war 3. As it is christians in this country are already being persecuted and being treated like second class citizens. If people choose to be agnostics or atheists that's fine by me, but they do not have the right to prohibit others from following whatever faith they wish. Outward accoutrements and apparel don't signify faith, the observance of doctrine is all that is required, so it is no big deal to compromise on a garment, especially when these women have the option to wear a hijab.

[BB_Eye]

I remember when they gave religious groups and churches an exemption from the Equality Bill. The excuse they gave and the excuse people still give is that it wasn't workable in practice as it meant churches weren't free to set their own moral guidelines regarding women and gay people.

But apparently, when it comes to banning the veil, muslims just have to deal with it and girls who have been brought up their whole lives to wear a veil in public will just have to see the errors of their ways?

Sounds like good old-fashioned intolerance rears its ugly head once again. I hope the school is prosecuted for denying people the right to live according to their faith.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I remember when they gave religious groups and churches an exemption from the Equality Bill. The excuse they gave and the excuse people still give is that it wasn't workable in practice as it meant churches weren't free to set their own moral guidelines regarding women and gay people.

But apparently, when it comes to banning the veil, muslims just have to deal with it and girls who have been brought up their whole lives to wear a veil in public will just have to see the errors of their ways?

Sounds like good old-fashioned intolerance rears its ugly head once again. I hope the school is prosecuted for denying people the right to live according to their faith.

I lived in the Middle East for four years and I can assure you that good old fashioned intolerance is alive and well and always will be in a muslim country when it comes to adjusting THEIR ways to us westerners which, by the way, I had absolutely no problem with since I had CHOSEN to live in THEIR country. Thus I had to cover up and not wear short skirts, or display bare arms or a cleavage, and would be sweltering in 50 degree heat for fear of offending their sensibilities by a flash of bare flesh. It is called respect for the host culture, its laws and norms. We do more than enough in this country already to respect others' culture and it is not too much to ask that there should be some sort of compromise from those who come here. A hijab is more than acceptable in place of the burkha which, by the way, most arab women did NOT wear except in the more remote areas of Kuwait, Saudi and Bahrain that I lived and worked in. Most muslim women find the burkha as offensive as western women do, and unless you are female you might not get the significance of what the burkha actually is. It was explained to me that it is a visual sign of ownership and possession of the woman by a man.

Banning the veil has absolutely NOTHING to do with religious intolerance but everything to do with safety and security, as well as the liberation, respect and freedom of women. The veil is a symbol of FEMALE SUBJUGATION and is abhorrent and offensive not only to most western women but also to a lot of liberated and independent muslim women. It is a demeaning subjugation imposed by muslim men and is sexist and totally retroactive to gender equality. We live in a modern society where women have fought hard for equality, and the veil is a potent and virulent symbol of the oppression and "inferiority" of women.

Far from being an intolerant country, the UK bends over backwards to accommodate all cultures, but it is now being recognised (too late) that multiculturalism does not work when every culture keeps itself separate and refuses to integrate even minimally with the mainstream culture. No-one has yet satisfactorily explained how diametrically diverse cultures can coexist in peace and harmony without some common ground being found, and MUTUAL respect fostered. Banning the burkha is common sense in this day and age - why should one section of the community be exempt from abiding by the rules and regulations the rest of us must abide by?

I'm sick of men on this forum supporting the wearing of the burkha when it is so obvious that if the boot were on the other foot, men would never be subjected to such an indignity by women.

I note you do not address your support of other so called "cultural" norms, examples of which I gave in my previous post, but then again you couldn't really, could you?

As regards prosecuting the college for banning the burkha, I hope that those colleges that still allow the burkha are similarly prosecuted for failing to practise equality in the application of their regulations, and failure to assure the safety of their students by condoning the anonymity of the burkha so that no-one knows who the hell is coming in and out of the college, or for that matter taking the exams.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Jack_

If one religious/cultural garment/symbol gets banned - then so should the rest. So crosses and crusifix necklaces etc all have to go. It's not fair otherwise.

It's either it all gets banned or none of it gets banned. Personally, I'd rather the former, I've always thought religion is the root of all evil.

What bull - it isn't about it being a religious/cultural garmet and has bugger all to do with fairness - it is a security risk, simples! As a poster has already mentioned the burka is not a religious requirement of the Quran! Many use it as an excuse to get preferential treatment and give priority to their religion!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by angus58

I lived in the Middle East for four years and I can assure you that good old fashioned intolerance is alive and well and always will be in a muslim country when it comes to adjusting THEIR ways to us westerners which, by the way, I had absolutely no problem with since I had CHOSEN to live in THEIR country. Thus I had to cover up and not wear short skirts, or display bare arms or a cleavage, and would be sweltering in 50 degree heat for fear of offending their sensibilities by a flash of bare flesh. It is called respect for the host culture, its laws and norms. We do more than enough in this country already to respect others' culture and it is not too much to ask that there should be some sort of compromise from those who come here. A hijab is more than acceptable in place of the burkha which, by the way, most arab women did NOT wear except in the more remote areas of Kuwait, Saudi and Bahrain that I lived and worked in. Most muslim women find the burkha as offensive as western women do, and unless you are female you might not get the significance of what the burkha actually is. It was explained to me that it is a visual sign of ownership and possession of the woman by a man.

Banning the veil has absolutely NOTHING to do with religious intolerance but everything to do with safety and security, as well as the liberation, respect and freedom of women. The veil is a symbol of FEMALE SUBJUGATION and is abhorrent and offensive not only to most western women but also to a lot of liberated and independent muslim women. It is a demeaning subjugation imposed by muslim men and is sexist and totally retroactive to gender equality. We live in a modern society where women have fought hard for equality, and the veil is a potent and virulent symbol of the oppression and "inferiority" of women.

Far from being an intolerant country, the UK bends over backwards to accommodate all cultures, but it is now being recognised (too late) that multiculturalism does not work when every culture keeps itself separate and refuses to integrate even minimally with the mainstream culture. No-one has yet satisfactorily explained how diametrically diverse cultures can coexist in peace and harmony without some common ground being found, and MUTUAL respect fostered. Banning the burkha is common sense in this day and age - why should one section of the community be exempt from abiding by the rules and regulations the rest of us must abide by?

I'm sick of men on this forum supporting the wearing of the burkha when it is so obvious that if the boot were on the other foot, men would never be subjected to such an indignity by women.

I note you do not address your support of other so called "cultural" norms, examples of which I gave in my previous post, but then again you couldn't really, could you?

As regards prosecuting the college for banning the burkha, I hope that those colleges that still allow the burkha are similarly prosecuted for failing to practise equality in the application of their regulations, and failure to assure the safety of their students by condoning the anonymity of the burkha so that no-one knows who the hell is coming in and out of the college, or for that matter taking the exams.

Well said - I agree with every word!

[joeysteele]

I think every Human being and all citizens of any Country should have the full right to be able to see clearly the other people that they share buildings,events and streets with.
That should be the overriding factor as to real community and security too.

[MTVN]

Oh please, not the whole "they should respect our culture" argument again. We are not purely a Christian country, we are a secular one, perhaps the most secular country in the world. Not only that but we are a tolerant country. Why do people always compare us to countries in the Middle East where they dictate their clothing style to their citizens there. Thank God we do not do that, I would hate it if we such a strict and intolerant society so as to not have the simplest freedom to wear whatever clothes we wanted. Yes it was their culture there, maybe, but it isn't ours here, and we should be thankful for that.

What the hell is British culture anyway, people always parrot on about it and I'm yet to have a heard a decent definition, or a definition that would prevent someone wearing what they want. Since when did our culture dictate what clothes someone can and cannot wear!?

I cant belive some women are actually offended by the burkha. You may consider it a symbol of female subjugation, but most who wear it dont, not in this country. It is their right to choose to wear it, is their own personal choice, if they want to wear the Burkha then they can, and do, wear it.

National security may be a valid argument to ban the burkha. So would the fact that it does restricts integration and communication in a lot of ways, which is needed if you want a succesful multicultural society. But the arguments about preserving our culture, the UK being a Christian country, and it being a symbol of female oppression are not, not in my view anyway.