[Stephanie]

it's a singing competition lmfao. that's why they sing :L

[Stacey.]

Cher's a good singer though..

[Joelle.]

Originally Posted by stacey.x

cher's a good singer though..

on what planet!?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Cher in particular is something we've never had on X Factor before, of course it's going to be interesting. She raps/sings - how is she going to take on Big Band Week? That's the kind of stuff I'm interested in. Someone like TreyC/Keri...not so interesting.

A personality can't be worked on with a mentor, really. You either have it or you don't. Bit like Rachel from last year, nice voice but dull as ***** to watch. And once she'd been pulled up on this she thought the best way forward was to copy Stacey Solomon's 'ditzy' personality - and it failed miserably, infact I think that's the week she left the show. It was laughable. You either have it or you don't.



That's a fair point, but the Live Shows will be the real test. If she messes up her words there then fair enough, then I'll reconsider my opinion on her, but right now [even if she has messed up before], I think she deserves her place for being a lot more interesting than the rest of the girls.

Don't forget Mary messed up her words at Judge's Houses - so it's not just Katie.

i dont think mary should have gone through as the judges are meant to be professional.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Smithy

It is a singing competition, it always has been it always will be the list of things you mentioned are absent from pretty much all winners bar maybe one or two. They all had good voices, because it is a singing competition.

You can argue your point all you want but it's a singing competition, and both Cher and Katie shouldn't have gotten through.

leon jackson did not have a good voice.

[M X]

tbh, if it was something to do with her versa then you can't blame cheryl. however, you can't blame cheryl for anything. it's her choice, her decision & lets face it, cher and katie's past performances have been brilliant.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Smithy

It is a singing competition, it always has been it always will be the list of things you mentioned are absent from pretty much all winners bar maybe one or two. They all had good voices, because it is a singing competition.

You can argue your point all you want but it's a singing competition, and both Cher and Katie shouldn't have gotten through.

All Wikipedia definitions that can and probably are written by people that don't have a clue. It is not just a singing competition, or else why would the Judge's keep referring to lines such as 'do you have the X Factor'? Dannii said it herself when giving one of the results to her boys this Sunday. The 'X Factor' is having that star quality, something different, something that stands out, a combination of different things [vocal ability, stage presence, personality, the 'look'].

Whilst we're using Wikipedia definitions, here is the real definition of the 'X Factor' itself, not the show. This is what it means:

X factor is an expression referring to an indefinable quality, particularly when referring to individuality and personality. Since these elements of a person or thing might not be measurable or definable, the "X factor" (since "X" is commonly used as a variable) is often used to explain its appeal. Compare je ne sais quoi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Factor

[Joelle.]

cher and katie's past performances have been brilliant

Im sorry but on what planet?!

Katie has broken down on two of her three performances without being able to sing the song properly. Doesn't really say much for the live shows does it?
And Cher had an okay audition but from then on in she has been utter ****e and like Katie broke down at judges houses.

[Tom4784]

You're naive if you think this is just to cover Cheryl's ass as that would mean you think you judges (apart from Simon) have any say of who goes through. Cheryl, Dannii and Louis get told who to put through while Simon puts on the theatrics for acts he hates to create drama. It's all fake, nothing that isn't live from the X Factor (and even then it shouldn't be taken as gospel) should ever be taken as the truth.

The audition stages rely on a lot of setups.

[Jack_]

Oh, and another thing. Do you really think 16 - 20 million people would tune in to the likes of Keri, Rachel Adedeji, Daniel Evans etc? No, not they wouldn't. They tune in to see the big performances, the big stars, the people that have something different. Samey bores do not pull in big audiences, that's a fact. All TV shows have to be entertaining and so if they're not no one will watch. As much as they are awful, there is no denying a large majority tuning in last year were tuning in to see Jedward [either because they loved them, or because they hated them and wanted to slate them more]. Of course some were tuning in for Joe, Stacey etc [the proper 'singers'], but I would hedge a bet that it's a smaller amount than the ones wanting something worthwhile. It's the same with practically every single TV show there is - it has to be entertaining and worth watching or else no one will watch. Big personalities make it entertaining. Simple, really.

Originally Posted by Stephanie

it's a singing competition lmfao. that's why they sing :L

Then why the choreographers and big performances? Why all the emphasis on stage presence? Why all the comments about 'you have the look', 'you look like a popstar'? Why all of the comments about 'you have the likeability factor', 'you have a great personality' etc? Why all of these things if the show was only about singing? It is a combination of many things, singing being the main one [but only slightly], but they are not judged only on their vocal talents. It's a combination of things. Always has been, always will be.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Cher in particular is something we've never had on X Factor before, of course it's going to be interesting. She raps/sings - how is she going to take on Big Band Week? That's the kind of stuff I'm interested in. Someone like TreyC/Keri...not so interesting.

A personality can't be worked on with a mentor, really. You either have it or you don't. Bit like Rachel from last year, nice voice but dull as ***** to watch. And once she'd been pulled up on this she thought the best way forward was to copy Stacey Solomon's 'ditzy' personality - and it failed miserably, infact I think that's the week she left the show. It was laughable. You either have it or you don't.



That's a fair point, but the Live Shows will be the real test. If she messes up her words there then fair enough, then I'll reconsider my opinion on her, but right now [even if she has messed up before], I think she deserves her place for being a lot more interesting than the rest of the girls.

Don't forget Mary messed up her words at Judge's Houses - so it's not just Katie.

PMSL, how did it fail? Rachel got the most votes that week.

People are allowed opinions, I think personally that she's one-dimensional.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Braden

PMSL, how did it fail? Rachel got the most votes that week.

Did she? Well I did say 'think', not that I knew. Didn't work for long though did it? She was out the following week.

Originally Posted by Braden

People are allowed opinions, I think personally that she's one-dimensional.

Of course they are...I've never said they're not allowed them, I'm just saying that A) it's not just a singing competition and B) in my opinion, Katie is more worthy of a place than some of the others mentioned.

I personally think Gamu is one-dimensional.

[Joelle.]

Don't forget Mary messed up her words at Judge's Houses - so it's not just Katie.

LOL! Mary forgot two words but she incorporated it into the song and she easily got through it.

On the other hand, Katie messed up the whole song, broke down in front of cheryl and didn't even finish the song.

There is quite a difference.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Juan_Sheet

LOL! Mary forgot two words but she incorporated it into the song and she easily got through it.

On the other hand, Katie messed up the whole song, broke down in front of cheryl and didn't even finish the song.

There is quite a difference.

She still 'messed up' though...that's the point.

And Mary is 50 and Katie is 24. There is quite a difference [especially when it comes to experience].

[Stephanie]

Originally Posted by Juan_Sheet

LOL! Mary forgot two words but she incorporated it into the song and she easily got through it.

On the other hand, Katie messed up the whole song, broke down in front of cheryl and didn't even finish the song.

There is quite a difference.

exactly katie just started the dramatics, where as mary just sang i don't know the words or something in the song and carried on as normal.

[Jack_]

As I said, the lives will be a real test for her. If she can hold it together then she evidently deserves her place, but if she messes up [her words] then I'll take back what I said and accept that maybe she didn't deserve her place. One thing is for sure though, she and Cher are a damn sight more interesting than some of the other girls that were in her category.

[Joelle.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

She still 'messed up' though...that's the point.

And Mary is 50 and Katie is 24. There is quite a difference [especially when it comes to experience].

She hardly messed up, she sang 'ive forgotten the words' and then just carried on as normal. Mary got through the song and didn't have to turn on the water works like attention seeking Katie.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Juan_Sheet

She hardly messed up, she sang 'ive forgotten the words' and then just carried on as normal. Mary got through the song and didn't have to turn on the water works like attention seeking Katie.

She messed up because she forgot part of the song, sure Katie might've forgotten more but they both still forgot part of the song, that's the principle at the end of the day.

And sure she might've done that...but hey as I've already said that's a damn sight more interesting and worth watching than Keri etc.

[Stephanie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

And sure she might've done that...but hey as I've already said that's a damn sight more interesting and worth watching than Keri etc.

it's not interesting and worth watching though, it's pathetic.

[Joelle.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

She messed up because she forgot part of the song, sure Katie might've forgotten more but they both still forgot part of the song, that's the principle at the end of the day.

And sure she might've done that...but hey as I've already said that's a damn sight more interesting and worth watching than Keri etc.

This is a talent show. I wouldn't say watching someone break down and make a huge drama out of nothing, i.e. Katie, was much more interesting than watching people sing well, i.e. Rebecca, Gamu, Treyc, Keri.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Stephanie

it's not interesting and worth watching though, it's pathetic.

You could easily apply that to Jedward but boy were they worth watching [and as I've already said in this thread, is probably the main reason why people were watching]. People love a controversial figure, someone that you either love or you hate, a 'marmite' figure. It's these people that pull in the viewers, not bores with good or average voices. Do you think the audition shows of all talent shows would be half as popular if they showed no sh!t or novelty acts? That's the main reason most people watch the Auditions...for entertainment. It lasts pretty much throughout the whole show, sure you can have a great voice but if you're dull and not worth watching, people just...aren't going to tune in. Cher is different to what we've ever had on XF [and is probably the most talked about/popular act so far this year], whilst Katie will divide opinion and will have people talking a hell of a lot more than say, Keri would've. Cheryl made the right choices.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Juan_Sheet

This is a talent show.

But...she does have talent. Sure she has messed up 2/3 auditions but when she sung she could sing well. She also has the personality, the 'look', I imagine the stage presence [though I'll reserve judgement until the lives].

Originally Posted by Juan_Sheet

I wouldn't say watching someone break down and make a huge drama out of nothing, i.e. Katie, was much more interesting than watching people sing well, i.e. Rebecca, Gamu, Treyc, Keri.

It's all fine and dandy watching good singers, of course - but you've got to have some acts that create entertainment and put on a 'show' and have some personality. Otherwise the whole thing would just be dull! Sure, some people may watch but the large majority, as I have already said, wouldn't. The X Factor is like one big drama, and without the drama people wouldn't watch.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Cher in particular is something we've never had on X Factor before, of course it's going to be interesting. She raps/sings - how is she going to take on Big Band Week? That's the kind of stuff I'm interested in. Someone like TreyC/Keri...not so interesting.

A personality can't be worked on with a mentor, really. You either have it or you don't. Bit like Rachel from last year, nice voice but dull as ***** to watch. And once she'd been pulled up on this she thought the best way forward was to copy Stacey Solomon's 'ditzy' personality - and it failed miserably, infact I think that's the week she left the show. It was laughable. You either have it or you don't.



That's a fair point, but the Live Shows will be the real test. If she messes up her words there then fair enough, then I'll reconsider my opinion on her, but right now [even if she has messed up before], I think she deserves her place for being a lot more interesting than the rest of the girls.

Don't forget Mary messed up her words at Judge's Houses - so it's not just Katie.

yes well I don't think Mary should be in the top 12 either!

[Stephanie]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yes well I don't think Mary should be in the top 12 either!

me either :L

[Joelle.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But...she does have talent. Sure she has messed up 2/3 auditions but when she sung she could sing well. She also has the personality, the 'look', I imagine the stage presence [though I'll reserve judgement until the lives].



It's all fine and dandy watching good singers, of course - but you've got to have some acts that create entertainment and put on a 'show' and have some personality. Otherwise the whole thing would just be dull! Sure, some people may watch but the large majority, as I have already said, wouldn't. The X Factor is like one big drama, and without the drama people wouldn't watch.

I suppose it depends what you enjoy watching. Some people like the auditions more than the serious stuff because they like watching people make fools of themselves etc. and the light hearted acts. Some people prefer the live shows because they like watching people develop as singers and show off the real talent. Some people enjoy both. I personally prefer the serious stuff.