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Beastie · 07-10-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Is there really any need to get personal and bring 'forum politics' into this?

Opinion is obviously split down the middle on this subject, understandably so perhaps when you consider what an emotive subject we're talking about, but I don't see why it has to descend into name calling and petty arguing. That will just get the thread closed, which would be a shame because it's been a really interesting debate imo.

This. Come on guys. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Say your opinion. Agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong.

Mystic Mock · 07-10-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebeast

This. Come on guys. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Say your opinion. Agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong.

according to inone there is.

InOne · 07-10-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Okaaaaaaaay.... just carry on then

I am being good

I know what you mean, don't want it to get locked either. But I think most have said what they needed to say and it's going round in circles, I'll admit I'm bad for biting though

MTVN · 07-10-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedward fever

no they obviously had a bad childhood but still they are never gonna change when they kill 2 year olds imo.

Well John Venables may be back in prison (not for murder though) but Robert Thompson has been free for 10 years and not killed anyone since. People do change from when they were 10.

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

You clearly dont have a clue about crime and murder and what drives people to it.

People arent just born murderers, they dont just have a desire to kill that sticks with them for the rest of their lives.

How about we kill you? You're 14 but if killing people is coming into your head now, what are you gonna be like when you're older?

Would you like a clue?
Thompson and Venables were torturing animals for a while before they killed James,the crime was premeditated and planned,Thompson had the sort of upbringing lots of kids have,an errant dad,mother an alcoholic,Venables on the other hand was in a two parent family and NOT the product of a dysfunctional family,I wanted them dead,but I had my reasons,in hindsight,they should have done 8 years where they did,then gone to a big boys prison and served life,what they did to James was barbaric,I wont go into detail,but I defy anyone to read his story and come out with a dry eye!!!And I will admit,that if I heard of their demise in anyway,I would give a silent cheer!so call me what you like,I really don't care.

InOne · 07-10-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well John Venables may be back in prison (not for murder though) but Robert Thompson has been free for 10 years and not killed anyone since. People do change from when they were 10.

Mary Bell also.

MissKittyFantastico · 07-10-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedward fever

no they obviously had a bad childhood but still they are never gonna change when they kill 2 year olds imo.

Actually I believe Venables came from a perfectly good background, and well we know what's happened with him. Thompson was the one with the unstable childhood and rehabiliation seems to have worked with him. Background very often has absolutely nothing to do with it in a lot of cases.

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Actually I believe Venables came from a perfectly good background, and well we know what's happened with him. Thompson was the one with the unstable childhood and rehabiliation seems to have worked with him. Background very often has absolutely nothing to do with it in a lot of cases.

Yes Jon had a good background.

Mystic Mock · 07-10-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well John Venables may be back in prison (not for murder though) but Robert Thompson has been free for 10 years and not killed anyone since. People do change from when they were 10.

as far as we are aware robert thompson hasnt killed anyone,but i still think his got it in him.

Niamh. · 07-10-2010, 06:27 PM

tone it down a bit or I'll have to close the thread

MTVN · 07-10-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InOne

Mary Bell also.

Yeah, thats true, forgot about her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

Would you like a clue?
Thompson and Venables were torturing animals for a while before they killed James,the crime was premeditated and planned,Thompson had the sort of upbringing lots of kids have,an errant dad,mother an alcoholic,Venables on the other hand was in a two parent family and NOT the product of a dysfunctional family,I wanted them dead,but I had my reasons,in hindsight,they should have done 8 years where they did,then gone to a big boys prison and served life,what they did to James was barbaric,I wont go into detail,but I defy anyone to read his story and come out with a dry eye!!!And I will admit,that if I heard of their demise in anyway,I would give a silent cheer!so call me what you like,I really don't care.

No, Venables parents were seperated.

I dont dispute the barbarity of their actions but you cant kill someone for what they did as a 10 year old. Venables may not have had the worst upbringing but he did supposedly show genuine remorse for his actions, and the mindset of a ten year old will not be the mindset he has for life. When someone commits a crime at that age, it is easily possible to reform them.

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedward fever

as far as we are aware robert thompson hasnt killed anyone,but i still think his got it in him.

Have they ever apologized to Denise and Ralph,NO they haven't,One of them even has a child!!!!

MissKittyFantastico · 07-10-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

Would you like a clue?
Thompson and Venables were torturing animals for a while before they killed James,the crime was premeditated and planned,Thompson had the sort of upbringing lots of kids have,an errant dad,mother an alcoholic,Venables on the other hand was in a two parent family and NOT the product of a dysfunctional family,I wanted them dead,but I had my reasons,in hindsight,they should have done 8 years where they did,then gone to a big boys prison and served life,what they did to James was barbaric,I wont go into detail,but I defy anyone to read his story and come out with a dry eye!!!And I will admit,that if I heard of their demise in anyway,I would give a silent cheer!so call me what you like,I really don't care.

Yes that's what I thought, Venables had a very 'normal' upbringing and it was Thompson that had the harder time.

It just goes to show though that some people CAN be rehabilitated, especially if you catch them young enough. It seems that perhaps Thompson was a product of his upbringing but having his freedom taken away and the rehab he recieved have changed him as an adult, surely that is a good thing and shows that the system can work in some cases? I'm in no way condoning what he did, it was a horrible awful sickening thing, but if someone can be 'fixed' and they can go on to contribute to society surely that is better than just killing in the name of killing and not actually attempting to understand and fix these problems?

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah, thats true, forgot about her.

No, Venables parents were seperated.

I dont dispute the barbarity of their actions but you cant kill someone for what they did as a 10 year old. Venables may not have had the worst upbringing but he did supposedly show genuine remorse for his actions, and the mindset of a ten year old will not be the mindset he has for life. When someone commits a crime at that age, it is easily possible to reform them.

They knew exactly what they were doing,I will not be drawn into this as it's upsetting,but no one will persuade me that they didn't know what they were doing.

They killed for their own pleasure,simple as.

Jack_ · 07-10-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

Have they ever apologized to Denise and Ralph,NO they haven't,One of them even has a child!!!!

Err...surprise, surprise...maybe that's because they're not allowed to reveal their identities?

And if one of them has a child and hasn't murdered anyone since then maybe it just goes to show they have changed and the system does sometimes work, eh?

Mystic Mock · 07-10-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

Have they ever apologized to Denise and Ralph,NO they haven't,One of them even has a child!!!!

well im scared for that child.

MTVN · 07-10-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

They knew exactly what they were doing,I will not be drawn into this as it's upsetting,but no one will persuade me that they didn't know what they were doing.

They killed for their own pleasure,simple as.

When did I say they didn't? I'm just saying that Venables is reported to have shown genuine remorse, and that reform is possible, that's all.

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Err...surprise, surprise...maybe that's because they're not allowed to reveal their identities?

And if one of them has a child and hasn't murdered anyone since then maybe it just goes to show they have changed and the system does sometimes work, eh?

Oh hear comes Mr know it all,you have it all wrong,but never mind,you usually do.

i suppose we are now in for a night of jacks 'theories'

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

When did I say they didn't? I'm just saying that Venables is reported to have shown genuine remorse, and that reform is possible, that's all.

of course he said he was remorseful,lol,they were both clever little sods. he is in prison for child pornography!wonder if he is 'sorry' for that

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Err...surprise, surprise...maybe that's because they're not allowed to reveal their identities?

And if one of them has a child and hasn't murdered anyone since then maybe it just goes to show they have changed and the system does sometimes work, eh?

Their identities ARE known to some.

Jack_ · 07-10-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

Oh hear comes Mr know it all,you have it all wrong,but never mind,you usually do.

i suppose we are now in for a night of jacks 'theories'

ROFL, what the **** are you on, love? 'Mr Know it all'. Grow up. While the second part of my post was an opinion, the first is fact...how are they supposed to apologise when they are also supposed to keep their identities a secret? Come on, use your brain.

Tom4784 · 07-10-2010, 06:40 PM

Calm down people, anymore insults or snide comments will be infracted.

Jack_ · 07-10-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

Their identities ARE known to some.

Well obviously [talk about stating the obvious]...someone had to give them their new identities. But very few people. Only really the ones 'in the know', not thousands

Kazanne · 07-10-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

ROFL, what the **** are you on, love? 'Mr Know it all'. Grow up. While the second part of my post was an opinion, the first is fact...how are they supposed to apologise when they are also supposed to keep their identities a secret? Come on, use your brain.

Their identities ARE known to some,and in any case have you never heard of video links?

MTVN · 07-10-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazanne

of course he said he was remorseful,lol,they were both clever little sods. he is in prison for child pornography!wonder if he is 'sorry' for that

Saying you're remorseful and showing that you're remorseful are two different things. I'm not going by what he said I'm going by the professional opinions of the experts who studied him afterwards. And they really weren't clever at all.

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