[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No, she was asked first - hence why I compared the two. It was the first Live Show of Series 4 and it was the episode where she 'walked off', after refusing to vote when she had two of her acts in the Bottom Two. The same applies here, except Cheryl was asked second, not first. Not much difference.

I don't buy into the fact that the order they were asked in was 'fixed'. They were pushing for time, and probably felt it would be easiest to just go from right to left without thinking it through. I personally think it's irrelevant when a Judge is asked for their vote, when you're asked you give your vote - and if you refuse to vote then that's your decision. The Judge should not be in control of the voting order - and I can guarantee, that if for some bizzarre reason Cheryl had got her way, and they had gone back to her, all of her haters would be doing the rounds of internet forums continuing to claim she is 'favoured' and 'special' etc etc. She can't win.

And 'access to the public votes'? You really think that, upon request of Cheryl and other members of the public, they are going to give out access to the voting figures so far this series? It's never going to happen. Voting figures are released at the end of every series - so as not to effect the outcome of future votes during the series. That's not going to change for anyone, neither should it.

In short; she was required to cast her vote second, she refused - her vote was voided. Simple.

By access to the public vote I meant she should have been entitled to deadlock and the decision of the public - given that neither Danni nor Cheryl had voted her off. I, honestly, can't see how anyone could disagree with that argument. And Cheryl would never EVER have been in danger of being accused of favouring TreyC; believe me. She should have insisted after Louis' vote that it went to deadlock. It was the only fair thing to do. She's both spineless and dim.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No, she was asked first - hence why I compared the two. It was the first Live Show of Series 4 and it was the episode where she 'walked off', after refusing to vote when she had two of her acts in the Bottom Two. The same applies here, except Cheryl was asked second, not first. Not much difference.

I don't buy into the fact that the order they were asked in was 'fixed'. They were pushing for time, and probably felt it would be easiest to just go from right to left without thinking it through. I personally think it's irrelevant when a Judge is asked for their vote, when you're asked you give your vote - and if you refuse to vote then that's your decision. The Judge should not be in control of the voting order - and I can guarantee, that if for some bizzarre reason Cheryl had got her way, and they had gone back to her, all of her haters would be doing the rounds of internet forums continuing to claim she is 'favoured' and 'special' etc etc. She can't win.

And 'access to the public votes'? You really think that, upon request of Cheryl and other members of the public, they are going to give out access to the voting figures so far this series? It's never going to happen. Voting figures are released at the end of every series - so as not to effect the outcome of future votes during the series. That's not going to change for anyone, neither should it.

In short; she was required to cast her vote second, she refused - her vote was voided. Simple.

no because she said she wanted to vote last anyway which should have been the case in the first place.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

By access to the public vote I meant she should have been entitled to deadlock and the decision of the public - given that neither Danni nor Cheryl had voted her off. I, honestly, can't see how anyone could disagree with that argument. And Cheryl would never EVER have been in danger of being accused of favouring TreyC; believe me. She should have insisted after Louis' vote that it went to deadlock. It was the only fair thing to do. She's both spineless and dim.

For the last time [though I will probably have to say it another ten for some members on here] - once she had confirmed her refusal to vote, that was it. No going back. She had confirmed her refusal. Set in stone. It was from then on a 'majority vote'. That's the rules. She made her decision and there was no going back. I refer you to the earlier points I made regarding other television shows that take people's 'first answer'. The same applies here. She could not have 'insisted Deadlock' after Louis' vote as she had already refused to vote - rendering her vote void.

Originally Posted by jedward fever

no because she said she wanted to vote last anyway which should have been the case in the first place.

No, she said that after she had confirmed to Dermot that she was refusing to vote. She had confirmed her decision, and then suddenly decided 'oh wait, nah go along the line and then I'll take it to Deadlock'. By which time it was too late - the decision of a 'majority vote' from the other three Judges was made. Like I said, Cheryl can't bend the rules [although some seem to think so, and would've complained had she got her own way anyway], neither can the other Judges. Neither do they decide which order to vote in. When they're asked they should vote, if they don't then that's their decision - but they lose their opportunity to vote and there is no going back.

That's the rules. How many more times do I need to repeat this?

[Zippy]

All this nonsense could have been avoided by Dermot leaving Cheryl until last. Maybe he was rushed for time and forgot that he was supposed to go to her last and just went along the line? They did seem pushed timewise. Maybe it was done for drama.

Whatever, no judge should be asked to send home one of their acts like that. It could be easily avoided by asking them last and therefore giving them the deadlock option. Which is exactly what Cheryl wanted to do.

But Dermot/producers suddenly decided to just let the other 3 judges decide. Thats not Cheryls fault at all. What, she is supposed to jump up and protest? Hardly. At that point I think she was just relieved that she didnt have to decide and accepted what the other judges chose.

Its the producers who are to blame here. In some ways theyve actually put Cheryl in a bad position. They didnt do this to Simon...quelle surprise.

[IheartBB]

Why should any judge have the casting vote? It shouldn't matter whether Cheryl voted second or last, her choice should still be the same. She was asked to vote off an act, she didn't, she loses her vote. Simple. Worried about hurting one of their feelings? Too bad. She knew what she signed up for. It's just business. It's not like she'll be in contact with either of them after the show is over.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by IheartBB

Why should any judge have the casting vote? It shouldn't matter whether Cheryl voted second or last, her choice should still be the same. She was asked to vote off an act, she didn't, she loses her vote. Simple. Worried about hurting one of their feelings? Too bad. She knew what she signed up for. It's just business. It's not like she'll be in contact with either of them after the show is over.

it was still wrong that they asked her second when they knew she wanted to take it to deadlock.

[IheartBB]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

it was still wrong that they asked her second when they knew she wanted to take it to deadlock.

So... you didn't actually read my post?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by IheartBB

So... you didn't actually read my post?

i did.

[US Nacho]

I'm not sure if this was pointed out elsewhere or not, but today's X Factor AU ended up in just about the exact same scenario. One Judge had his two acts in the bottom two. The first judge votes for one group, the second votes for another and they go to the third judge who was mentoring both acts and he refuses to vote. They move to the 4th judge who then says "well I'm voting for Luke and Joel so now what are you going to do?" and then the presenter goes back to Judge #3 and says "I assume you're going to send this to deadlock then?" and he is given a 2nd chance to vote and does so.

I'm not one for these crazy conspiracy theories that often accompany shows like this, but especially in light of this, there really does seem like the producers are getting involved in order to keep Katie around for as long as possible. I don't know what else could explain it because they have never acted this way when similar situations have occurred.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by IheartBB

Why should any judge have the casting vote? It shouldn't matter whether Cheryl voted second or last, her choice should still be the same. She was asked to vote off an act, she didn't, she loses her vote. Simple. Worried about hurting one of their feelings? Too bad. She knew what she signed up for. It's just business. It's not like she'll be in contact with either of them after the show is over.

what cod.

yes she is worried about hurting one of their feelings. She did not sign up to cast the deciding vote at all. The structure is there for her to not have to...with deadlock. She did not have to choose between them if theyd simply asked her last. Not difficult to do and they manage to do it when its Simon in that position.

Cheryl has worked with and mentored these girls for months now and your post doesnt grasp that simple fact.

[Mystic Mock]

i would love every judge to refuse to vote next week,i wonder if people will defend them? no they wouldnt but still as i will keep saying,dermot shouldnt have gone to cheryl second.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

i would love every judge to refuse to vote next week,i wonder if people will defend them? no they wouldnt but still as i will keep saying,dermot shouldnt have gone to cheryl second.

actually I think they would all refuse in that position. Because they know that Dermot would then be forced to just move on to the next judge! Like he did last night.

If theyre asked at an unnecessary point then they should refuse to vote like Cheryl did. No judge should have to pick between their own acts like that.

[fruit_cake]

It was a tricky night all round for Dermot

[patsylimerick]

Anyone's position on this fiasco depends on what they believe happens backstage prior to the results being announced. I, personally, believe the judges know exactly what the results are and are told/decide what's going to happen next. It's a bloody pantomime, a poorly acted and increasingly tedious one at that. As to whose fault Sunday night's shenanigans were - all of them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by US Nacho

I'm not sure if this was pointed out elsewhere or not, but today's X Factor AU ended up in just about the exact same scenario. One Judge had his two acts in the bottom two. The first judge votes for one group, the second votes for another and they go to the third judge who was mentoring both acts and he refuses to vote. They move to the 4th judge who then says "well I'm voting for Luke and Joel so now what are you going to do?" and then the presenter goes back to Judge #3 and says "I assume you're going to send this to deadlock then?" and he is given a 2nd chance to vote and does so.

I'm not one for these crazy conspiracy theories that often accompany shows like this, but especially in light of this, there really does seem like the producers are getting involved in order to keep Katie around for as long as possible. I don't know what else could explain it because they have never acted this way when similar situations have occurred.

yes, this what you would expect to happen and has always done, it's a bit fishy to say the least

[robb]

Originally Posted by IheartBB

Why should any judge have the casting vote? It shouldn't matter whether Cheryl voted second or last, her choice should still be the same. She was asked to vote off an act, she didn't, she loses her vote. Simple. Worried about hurting one of their feelings? Too bad. She knew what she signed up for. It's just business. It's not like she'll be in contact with either of them after the show is over.

I have a feeling that Cheryl thought the other 3 would just vote in favour of katie anyway.Simon already had. That would have meant she DIDN'T have to vote at the end. Her 'send it to deadlock' was presumptious anyway. How did she know she would have to? Anyway you could tell on ITV2 that she got what she wanted: Katie through, Treyc out.

[robb]

Originally Posted by Zippy

what cod.

yes she is worried about hurting one of their feelings. She did not sign up to cast the deciding vote at all. The structure is there for her to not have to...with deadlock. She did not have to choose between them if theyd simply asked her last. Not difficult to do and they manage to do it when its Simon in that position.

Cheryl has worked with and mentored these girls for months now and your post doesnt grasp that simple fact.

Pity she couldn't have decided, as Dannii did, who DESERVED to go through on the sing off. She would have earned far more respect for that, rather than her silly get out of jail tactic.

[IheartBB]

Originally Posted by Zippy

what cod.

yes she is worried about hurting one of their feelings. She did not sign up to cast the deciding vote at all. The structure is there for her to not have to...with deadlock. She did not have to choose between them if theyd simply asked her last. Not difficult to do and they manage to do it when its Simon in that position.

Cheryl has worked with and mentored these girls for months now and your post doesnt grasp that simple fact.

For the first three years of the show, there was no such thing as copout - sorry, deadlock. The three judges had the final say. What I was getting at in my post was that a judge's casting vote should not be swayed by the other judges or the crowd. I said in another thread that they should vote confidentially and have it come up on screen in front of them (ala Dancing on Ice or something).

You go ahead and think that Cheryl and her acts are all best buds if you wish. Just let me remind you of last week (or was it the week before) when she was stumped to embarrassing silence when Simon asked her to name Treyc's home town.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by IheartBB

Just let me remind you of last week (or was it the week before) when she was stumped to embarrassing silence when Simon asked her to name Treyc's home town.

Er, no she wasn't. She said Birmingham and added that she even went there herself to tell her she'd been chosen!

Just because she didnt answer in under 0.25 seconds doesnt somehow prove she doesnt care about TreyC!

Anyways, whatever. Cheryl was right not to choose between them and the producers(or Dermot) were wrong to ask her second. End of.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Er, no she wasn't. She said Birmingham and added that she even went there herself to tell her she'd been chosen!

Just because she didnt answer in under 0.25 seconds doesnt somehow prove she doesnt care about TreyC!

Anyways, whatever. Cheryl was right not to choose between them and the producers(or Dermot) were wrong to ask her second. End of.

actually treyc lives in tamworth so cheryl got it wrong.

[IheartBB]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Er, no she wasn't. She said Birmingham and added that she even went there herself to tell her she'd been chosen!

Just because she didnt answer in under 0.25 seconds doesnt somehow prove she doesnt care about TreyC!

Anyways, whatever. Cheryl was right not to choose between them and the producers(or Dermot) were wrong to ask her second. End of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjti6dV3Pjg

You think this is not embarrassing silence?

And seeing as though there is a very valid argument as to what order the judges should or should not be asked, it clearly is not the "end of" anything.