[Tom]

Originally Posted by lily.

That's correct. It would be unfair of me to generalise by saying that everyone who gets pregnant by accident isn't smart enough to use birth control.

That would be like making a sweeping statement about 16 year old school leavers.

Oh wait.

I thought it was a sly dig if anything.

But these days, in general, only tramps and no hopers leave at school and don't really go on to do much. it was probably different when you left because of less emphasis on A levels & uni

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Tom

I thought it was a sly dig if anything.

But these days, in general, only tramps and no hopers leave at school and don't really go on to do much. it was probably different when you left because of less emphasis on A levels & uni

It is simply not true that you have to get A levels and degrees to succeed in life - I know plenty of over educated tramps and no hopers. Some of the most destructive and least contributing members of society have been privately educated and gone to top universities - look at Tony Blair as a prime example.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by angus58

It is simply not true that you have to get A levels and degrees to succeed in life - I know plenty of over educated tramps and no hopers. Some of the most destructive and least contributing members of society have been privately educated and gone to top universities - look at Tony Blair as a prime example.

I know you don't need them to go far but I'm speaking purely in general terms. If you look at the ratio of career successes from school leavers and then from college leavers over a 5-10 year period I bet you'd see a big difference

These days even the people who don't want A Levels go on to do a vocational course in construction or hair and beauty or something like that.

Years ago it was a lot different, but these days some schools report figures of at least 90% going on to further education which in a year group of 200 people means that 180 leave education at that point.

A levels are also the qualifications that most employers look at.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Tom

I know you don't need them to go far but I'm speaking purely in general terms. If you look at the ratio of career successes from school leavers and then from college leavers over a 5-10 year period I bet you'd see a big difference

These days even the people who don't want A Levels go on to do a vocational course in construction or hair and beauty or something like that.

Years ago it was a lot different, but these days some schools report figures of at least 90% going on to further education which in a year group of 200 people means that 180 leave education at that point.

A levels are also the qualifications that most employers look at.

There are plenty of careers that offer on the job training and education - and this obsession with sending kids into further education to the extent they are in no gainful employment until they are in their early 20s is, quite frankly, ludicrous. It gives kids a false and unrealistic sense of entitlement to a job in a world where it's dog eat dog and the early bird catches the worm.

Vocational courses are the way to go, earn while you learn and end up with a useful skill that will enable you to earn a living. It is even more imperative that student fees are raised and not funded by the taxpayer if such high percentages are opting to stay in education for a further 3 years.

I have two sons who both spurned uni and they're the ones laughing now, as they are in secure, full time employment, whilst many of their contemporaries who opted for a degree are unemployed. Because so many people are getting degrees, it has devalued the qualification to the extent that you literally have to have one to work behind the counter at KFC or McDonalds.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by angus58

There are plenty of careers that offer on the job training and education - and this obsession with sending kids into further education to the extent they are in no gainful employment until they are in their early 20s is, quite frankly, ludicrous. It gives kids a false and unrealistic sense of entitlement to a job in a world where it's dog eat dog and the early bird catches the worm.

Vocational courses are the way to go, earn while you learn and end up with a useful skill that will enable you to earn a living. It is even more imperative that student fees are raised and not funded by the taxpayer if such high percentages are opting to stay in education for a further 3 years.

I have two sons who both spurned uni and they're the ones laughing now, as they are in secure, full time employment, whilst many of their contemporaries who opted for a degree are unemployed. Because so many people are getting degrees, it has devalued the qualification to the extent that you literally have to have one to work behind the counter at KFC or McDonalds.

I think the problem lies in the over exaggeration of the economy and "lack of jobs". That gets people into the mentality of not being bothered to get a job because they don't think they'll find one and instead opt for gaining a pointless degree.

And if worst comes to worst when you're struggling for a job, if you can't get a christmas temp job in retail then the problem lies with you, not the economy.

I don't necessarily think vocational courses are the way to go, but I do think if something practical isn't for you then you can't go wrong with getting some A Levels. I just think too many people go to Uni when they don't need to and gain pointless degrees, a load of debt and a huge lack of experience. I'm doing a degree myself but through open uni whilst I'm working full time but hoping that leads to something else (Sports Rehabilitation), but I'm talking about people who just go and do Media or Sociology because they cba getting a job