[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Fat people have an element of control over how they look, they only really have themselves to blame for being the size they are and they are well within their capabilities to silm down, it's a health issue you cant say the same about somebodys race.

Black people cannot change their skin colour, they cannot change the way they were born. A self-inflicted health problem and somebodys race are not comparable. And if you want to look back through the history of discrimination I wonder whos had it worse? I doubt it's those who get the odd "fat" jibe every now and then

I don't think that fat people are to blame for being abused. It seems to me that the people who abuse them are to blame.

Fat people might be able to slim down but ugly people are always ugly and Stupid people are always stupid. I don't understand why do they not deserve special protection, yet those of non-white race do deserve it?? It seems like a double standard to me

The English are the ones who like to seperate people on grounds of race. It seems to me that the true racists are the English. You don't have to tick a form to say which race you belong to just to get a job in Spain. The Spanish might make one or two stupid jokes like with that racing driver but the entire English nation is fundamentally racist. Its a nation that likes to tell others what to do but forgets that it's flies are undone while it does it.

Nobody gets special privelidges in Spain just because their skin is the right colour like they do in England. So I don't agree with what you say!!! its your opinion and this is mine.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

I don't think that fat people are to blame for being abused. It seems to me that the people who abuse them are to blame.

Fat people might be able to slim down but ugly people are always ugly and Stupid people are always stupid. I don't understand why do they not deserve special protection, yet those of non-white race do deserve it?? It seems like a double standard to me

The English are the ones who like to seperate people on grounds of race. The true racists are the English. You don't have to tick a form to say which race you belong to just to get a job in Spain. The Spanish might make one or two stupid jokes like with that racing driver but the entire English nation is fundamentally racist. You are a nation that likes to tell others what to do but you forget that your flies are undone while you do it.

Nobody gets special privelidges in Spain just because their skin is the right colour like they do in England. So I don't agree with what you say!!! its your opinion and this is mine.

I'm not saying that insulting people for being black is justified but it's more explainable than targeting someone because of their skin colour, I maintain that calling someone fat is nor comparable to making monkey noises at black people.

Bullying is not nice in any way, shape or form, but you have to put the situation into context; racism is far more degrading and far more of a divisive force in society then calling someone ugly is, and it goes a lot deeper, in my opinion anyway. That's why it is considered much more inappropiate.

And who gets special priviliges? Nobody does, I already tried explaining that non-whites do not get privileges that we dont. Giving your ethnicity on a form is for purely statistical purposes, there is nothing racist about it.

[InOne]

Isn't there only 3 types of race or something? Like Black people, Chinese, and then the rest are just in the middle?

[letmein]

Originally Posted by InOne

Isn't there only 3 types of race or something? Like Black people, Chinese, and then the rest are just in the middle?

Nope.


Chinese, isn't a race.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

As the son of an immigrant, I have absolutely no problem with this. For those who are concerned can I ask what are the emotions you feel? Fear, anger, disgust, what exactly are you so concerned about? Losing the identity of 'white' Britain is surely only appropriate for people who can remember 'white' Britain. I fear most of you were not around when this country was almost exclusively white so why are you so bothered?

I think this is a very valid point - white Britons who have grown up in multicultural Britain will, for the most part, be unlikely to be worried about any loss of identity, since the British identity they have known all their lives is closely entwined with that of many other ethnicities.

However, this is still Britain, with it's own rich history, traditions, ceremonies etc.,contributed to and enhanced by immigrant culture over a much longer and protracted timespan than the mere 50 odd years we have recently lived through. So long as these traditions are respected and perpetuated, alongside those of other ethnicities I can see a future, a hundred years hence, when our British heritage will have assimilated all such influences, as it has always done throughout the centuries.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

I don't think that fat people are to blame for being abused. It seems to me that the people who abuse them are to blame.

Fat people might be able to slim down but ugly people are always ugly and Stupid people are always stupid. I don't understand why do they not deserve special protection, yet those of non-white race do deserve it?? It seems like a double standard to me

The English are the ones who like to seperate people on grounds of race. It seems to me that the true racists are the English. You don't have to tick a form to say which race you belong to just to get a job in Spain. The Spanish might make one or two stupid jokes like with that racing driver but the entire English nation is fundamentally racist. Its a nation that likes to tell others what to do but forgets that it's flies are undone while it does it.

Nobody gets special privelidges in Spain just because their skin is the right colour like they do in England. So I don't agree with what you say!!! its your opinion and this is mine.

One flaw in your argument is to suggest that the "true racists are English". If that were the case, why would the English have permitted such levels of immigration into this country over the past half century? It is unparalleled with the rest of Europe - countries such as France, Germany, Spain,Italy etc, have far more draconian restrictions and treatments of immigrants. There may well be racist English people, but I have encountered very many racist people from different ethnicities. It isn't a one way street by any means. You seem to be guilty of the same accusation levelled at the English - ie tarring every English person with the same racist brush.

Furthermore, I also totally abhor those forms and questionnaires where you have to state your ethnicity, but far from being racist they are there to promote fairness in the distribution of resources, ie to ensure that the white English do not hog them!

As regards Spain, I have family living in Almeria who are often subjected to racist jibes and resentment, so please don't even bother pretending Spain is oh so liberal and welcoming to immigrants.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by letmein

Nope.


Chinese, isn't a race.

They are a race. They are recognised as a minority in neighbouring Asian countries such as Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and particularly Indonesia where they are known for suffering discrimination.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by InOne

Isn't there only 3 types of race or something? Like Black people, Chinese, and then the rest are just in the middle?

[lime]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Makes no difference to me. At all. Who cares what color people are. The only problem I do have (and no doubt I will be flamed for being 'racist') is when people live here but refuse to speak english.

The blokes who own our corner shop, speak perfect english when you meet them outside of work, however...they tend to fritter off into another language whenever you are in the actual shop. Probably bitching about the customers...as I see no other reason for it.

I find your post very interesting from personal experience.My first language is Afrikaans and I 've been living in Ireland since '99.I am perfectly capable of speaking English in fact i only speak Afrikaans when I get home after work to family or if i am on the phone to family or friends.
In the past couple of years whilst I'm on the phone speaking Afrikaans I've had 3 occasions were people have shouted at me to go home to Poland(whilst I'm sure it's a lovely country ,I have never been there).
First occasion was I stopped off at shop on way home from work,went to get a trolley.I was on the phone to my kids asking them to check did we need milk /bread etc when the hoody brigade start shouting at me.I was quite frightened by this and just got in my car and drove home.Another time my son 19 had to get of the luas on his way to college as he could be heard speaking Afrikaans to his brother on phone and some scumbags started to threaten him and the usual calling him fcuking foreigner.

Whilst I know that these individuals are just ignorant and put these experiences down to that as all my Irish friends have told me to I'm know starting to think I may be a bit green around the gills.

In my home country SA there are so many languages it never bothers me if i here people speaking in a language I don't understand and I genuinely did not think that others would be offended if I spoke my own language to my family /friends in English speaking countries.TBH I don't understand why it is??
You say you see no other reason for these people to speak their own language to each other than bitch about customers????
When I have been to France/Spain etc I have often encountered English speaking people who have emigrated there who freely speak English to each other and I guess the French/Spanish find it also a problem but I just don't see why.I don't get why people find it a problem if they encounter a person or people speaking in a conversation that doesn't involve them in a language they don't understand??

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by angus58

One flaw in your argument is to suggest that the "true racists are English". If that were the case, why would the English have permitted such levels of immigration into this country over the past half century? It is unparalleled with the rest of Europe - countries such as France, Germany, Spain,Italy etc, have far more draconian restrictions and treatments of immigrants.

um.. Angus maybe can you go and tell about how the Spanish have such draconian laws about immigration to the 1 million English immigrants now living in Andalucia and the Costa del Sol. Or to the 500000 Germans living in Mallorca...or maybe you could say hello to the 5million South Americans now living in Madrid and Spain or to the 500000 Romanians that for some reason have decided that Spain is a good place to go to. It might be wise to learn about these places before you talk about how inferior to England they are...

There are no immigration laws within the EU because everyone can move around as long as they hold an EU passport. Most south Americans have dual nationality either with Spain, Portugal or Italy and so they have no restrictions either...so you are just wrong there are no draconian laws. Spain has to deal with the majority of African immigration as it is the closest crossing point from Africa and most of the ports like Algeciras, La Linea and Tarifa are full of Arab immigrants and many stay and settle. Spain has to hear complaints about immigration by the English and yet the hard work of protecting EU boundaries is done by Spanish workers. Spain was ruled by Arabs for 800 years and they still think its their country.

erm.. maybe under Franco Spain was different and he didn't really allow immigration particularly in his early years, but as he grew old he got tired and opened Spain up to tourism...its been 35 years now since he died and 72 years since he took over so it is not the same country anymore. One good legacy of Franco is that it does not have broken down benefit families or spoilt brat child princes and princesses with no respect or care for fellow their human beings.

Also the only country in the EU that still has passport control is the UK. You can't even get a UK passport without having to find someone of high social standing to countersign the photograph. Out of the countries of western europe, It's the UK that is the only 'draconian' country IMO.

It seems to me that perfect England is actually a country that is far more riddled with social inequalities than any other in Europe. Special interest groups constantly demanding special priviledges be it on grounds of race, sex, class, whatever. It doesn't happen in Spain.. you get laughed at if you think you're special just because of the way you were born, just like that spoilt brat racing driver did, La Pija Vicki Beckham couldn't hack it even for a few weeks and everyone in Spain was laughing at her.. and those oh so special English footballers went home with their 'anti racism' banners whining like spoilt little babies.

It has nothing to do with Racism at all thats what I already said duh.. if you're ugly they call you ugly, if you're fat they call you fat.. if you're black they shout monkey noises at you.. every is the same **** and nobody is special.. Its not something to be proud of, but at least its fair... and it sounds better like we say in Spanish.. somos todos la misma mierda

Neither country is perfect and sh1tty English bottoms still stink and need wiping just like Spanish ones do...

[Tom]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

As the son of an immigrant, I have absolutely no problem with this. For those who are concerned can I ask what are the emotions you feel? Fear, anger, disgust, what exactly are you so concerned about? Losing the identity of 'white' Britain is surely only appropriate for people who can remember 'white' Britain. I fear most of you were not around when this country was almost exclusively white so why are you so bothered?

Maybe we should just pull any iconic buildings down if they're in the way etc or falling apart, after all none of us were about when these things within British heritage were built/started

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Tom

Maybe we should just pull any iconic buildings down if they're in the way etc or falling apart, after all none of us were about when these things within British heritage were built/started

I dont see the point you're tying to make. How does the tearing down of an historic building compare to hanging onto a culture that has not existed for at least sixty years?

Originally Posted by angus58

I think this is a very valid point - white Britons who have grown up in multicultural Britain will, for the most part, be unlikely to be worried about any loss of identity, since the British identity they have known all their lives is closely entwined with that of many other ethnicities.

However, this is still Britain, with it's own rich history, traditions, ceremonies etc.,contributed to and enhanced by immigrant culture over a much longer and protracted timespan than the mere 50 odd years we have recently lived through. So long as these traditions are respected and perpetuated, alongside those of other ethnicities I can see a future, a hundred years hence, when our British heritage will have assimilated all such influences, as it has always done throughout the centuries.

Totally agree.

[Lee.]

Live and let live..

Life's FAR too short

[Tom]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I dont see the point you're tying to make. How does the tearing down of an historic building compare to hanging onto a culture that has not existed for at least sixty years?

You were saying whats the point in keeping a culture that doesn't exist and noone was around for, but thats akin to saying why keep heritage and other aspects of culture that noone was initially around for and only know the history of it?

And I do agree with a lot of what you're saying, all I'm saying is immigrants should never outnumber the native race of a country and that if immigrants do move over here then respect our culture and don't try to make it like your own, which large minority of immigrants are currently doing and the overly PC government lets this happen.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Tom

Maybe we should just pull any iconic buildings down if they're in the way etc or falling apart, after all none of us were about when these things within British heritage were built/started

What does that have to do with anything? Britain's remaining traditional architecture is protected by the government and local councils. Most of the fugly concrete tower blocks that stand in place of where more uniform Georgian and Victorian buildings might have stood are there as a result of feckless town and city planners trying to rebuild inner cities in their ill-considered utopian image following the bombings in WWII.

And some of the 'non-Western' architecture built for ethnic and religious minorities happen to scrub up very well too. For instance the Neasden Temple in London is a beautiful building and the largest Hindu temple outside of India.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Tom

You were saying whats the point in keeping a culture that doesn't exist and noone was around for, but thats akin to saying why keep heritage and other aspects of culture that noone was initially around for and only know the history of it?

And I do agree with a lot of what you're saying, all I'm saying is immigrants should never outnumber the native race of a country and that if immigrants do move over here then respect our culture and don't try to make it like your own, which large minority of immigrants are currently doing and the overly PC government lets this happen.

Its not even nearly the same thing. Culture evolves and develops depending on the time. To hang onto a culture that is in no way relevant in this day and age seems like resistant just for the sake. Why not embrace the new found culture. The Indian corner shop is now a British institution. The most popular dish is an Indian dish. Immigrants have and are contributing a great deal to this country. To hang on to this ideology of 'white' Britain is antiquated to say the least.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Its not even nearly the same thing. Culture evolves and develops depending on the time. To hang onto a culture that is in no way relevant in this day and age seems like resistant just for the sake. Why not embrace the new found culture. The Indian corner shop is now a British institution. The most popular dish is an Indian dish. Immigrants have and are contributing a great deal to this country. To hang on to this ideology of 'white' Britain is antiquated to say the least.

Well you "totally agree" with angus58's point that is very similar to what I'm saying ...

British culture and heritage is important to Britain just as any countries heritage is relevant and important to that country. Its not hanging on to it for the sake of it, its hanging on to your countries values and traditions.

I agree with integration into our culture and it will evolve just as today is different to 100 years ago because thats just natural progression, but core values and beliefs in this country need to stay imo and that would be impossible in such a situation, again I refer to a minority who don't respect our culture and attempt to bring their own culture here and in a violent way. Indian takeaways are not an intentional impact on our culture, it just happened. Trying to abolish Christmas or being disrespectful on Remembrance Day is an instant impact and is unnacceptable. And I'm not disputing that immigrants are contributing to the country either. Why should we put up with that just for the sake of "evolving". But when you're going from 91% British people and predominantly Christian values (whether or not you're religious or not) then thats how it should stay, well because its just Britain. Becoming an ethnic minority in your own country is just pushing it.

I don't even think this will happen anyway especially not 2066. By then the population is estimated to be about 70-80m, even just the surplus 10-20m that will live here isn't enough on its own to boost numbers from 9% to 60%.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Tom

Well you "totally agree" with angus58's point that is very similar to what I'm saying ...

British culture and heritage is important to Britain just as any countries heritage is relevant and important to that country. Its not hanging on to it for the sake of it, its hanging on to your countries values and traditions.

I agree with integration into our culture and it will evolve just as today is different to 100 years ago because thats just natural progression, but core values and beliefs in this country need to stay imo and that would be impossible in such a situation, again I refer to a minority who don't respect our culture and attempt to bring their own culture here and in a violent way. Indian takeaways are not an intentional impact on our culture, it just happened. Trying to abolish Christmas or being disrespectful on Remembrance Day is an instant impact and is unnacceptable. And I'm not disputing that immigrants are contributing to the country either. Why should we put up with that just for the sake of "evolving". But when you're going from 91% British people and predominantly Christian values (whether or not you're religious or not) then thats how it should stay, well because its just Britain. Becoming an ethnic minority in your own country is just pushing it.

I don't even think this will happen anyway especially not 2066. By then the population is estimated to be about 70-80m, even just the surplus 10-20m that will live here isn't enough on its own to boost numbers from 9% to 60%.

If you're referring to integration thru violence then of course that is not acceptable but I doubt there are many effective examples that we can point to.

The title of the thread refers to 'white' Britain and for me, the son of an immigrant who came here nearly fifty years ago, that is a concept that only people in their 70's or 80's can actually know about from first hand experience. Thus, I'm shocked to see so much resistance from teenagers and 20 somethings.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Tom

Well you "totally agree" with angus58's point that is very similar to what I'm saying ...

British culture and heritage is important to Britain just as any countries heritage is relevant and important to that country. Its not hanging on to it for the sake of it, its hanging on to your countries values and traditions.

I agree with integration into our culture and it will evolve just as today is different to 100 years ago because thats just natural progression, but core values and beliefs in this country need to stay imo and that would be impossible in such a situation, again I refer to a minority who don't respect our culture and attempt to bring their own culture here and in a violent way. Indian takeaways are not an intentional impact on our culture, it just happened. Trying to abolish Christmas or being disrespectful on Remembrance Day is an instant impact and is unnacceptable. And I'm not disputing that immigrants are contributing to the country either. Why should we put up with that just for the sake of "evolving". But when you're going from 91% British people and predominantly Christian values (whether or not you're religious or not) then thats how it should stay, well because its just Britain. Becoming an ethnic minority in your own country is just pushing it.

I don't even think this will happen anyway especially not 2066. By then the population is estimated to be about 70-80m, even just the surplus 10-20m that will live here isn't enough on its own to boost numbers from 9% to 60%.

Tom I think I understand what you are saying and you have a valid point. Population has grown so much even since our parents and grandparents generation it has grown and evolved and part of that is immigration which is good as hopefully it does make us more knowledgeable and tolerant as a nation and helps us to understand and learn about other cultures as hopefully they learn from us without having to travel far and wide to learn, as some people never get the opportunity to travel. The history of Britian goes way back and also needs to be preserved, buildings, artifacts etc. I think this will happen and I dont think it is in threat through being multicultural, as 'new cultures' are proud of this also. But yes you are right, this is an ideal theory and it is upsetting when some of our traditions are disrespected like say Remembrance Day. We just have to remember that this is a minority who do this and does not represent our multi cultured nation as a whole. Our own so called 'white british' students can act like d***s also and totally disrespect and embarrass our country. I think history and heritage will be preserved just because its ours and no one can take it away from us

[letmein]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

They are a race. They are recognised as a minority in neighbouring Asian countries such as Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and particularly Indonesia where they are known for suffering discrimination.

No. Chinese is an ethnicity. Not a race, babe.

[Mr XcX]

What a load of ****!!!

White people are about 3/4 of the population of Britain last week! Now this week we are in the minority! RUBBISH!

[Jamietwo]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

As the son of an immigrant, I have absolutely no problem with this. For those who are concerned can I ask what are the emotions you feel? Fear, anger, disgust, what exactly are you so concerned about? Losing the identity of 'white' Britain is surely only appropriate for people who can remember 'white' Britain. I fear most of you were not around when this country was almost exclusively white so why are you so bothered?

I like this post... The racist feelings i have occasionally definitely involve fear and anger, I just want to feel peaceful and happy inside. Hanging onto to racist feelings or hateful feelings is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, you are just hurting yourself. There are aspects of afro-Caribbean culture that upset me at times, but I generally feel ok with everyone no matter what their ethnic background. The way forward is to feel comfortable enough to explore our feelings and be honest, not have them pushed down by political correctness. If we all started talking about our feelings more there would definitely be some healing.

[letmein]

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom

You were saying whats the point in keeping a culture that doesn't exist and noone was around for, but thats akin to saying why keep heritage and other aspects of culture that noone was initially around for and only know the history of it?

And I do agree with a lot of what you're saying, all I'm saying is immigrants should never outnumber the native race of a country and that if immigrants do move over here then respect our culture and don't try to make it like your own, which large minority of immigrants are currently doing and the overly PC government lets this happen.

I agree with this train of thought.

As for the original post way back. If I could be bothered checking I would, but isn't this something that Nostradamus predicted, and the date's not too far off also.

[Z]

To me, if an immigrant has made a concerted effort to learn the language and way of life in this country, that's all there is to be expected of them. I would not simply renounce my old way of life just because I'd moved; at the same time I wouldn't want to isolate myself by not trying to fit in, but like attracts like; immigrants will be drawn to other immigrants from the same background, it's a normal thing. So what if white Britons become a minority by 2066? Change is always good; trying to resist it is what causes problems!