[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

If this is an opportunist crime then forensic evidence would be in plentyful outside/inside the apartment as a struggle would be evident surely - which makes it pre meditated or a crime of passion - especially as the police consider no person to be at risk whilst the culprit remains at large.

How do you know there was a struggle?

What would make any struggle 'evident' as you claim?

What 'makes' it pre-meditated?

What 'makes' it a crime of passion?

How do you know there would be plentyful forensic evidence outside?

What type of forensic evidence would you expect to be found given weather conditions, given that it was days later she was reported as missing? In an area that many would have access to - ie: friends, family, postman, ad hoc people delivering flyers etc, landlord, other neighbours, random prowlers?

Additionally, given that it appears to be at the current time, a 'one of' murder: the police are hardly going to create massive panic by saying, "There's a psychopathic killer on the loose, watch your every move".

I'm sorry, but given that you were offering up 'read on a blog about bf's car needing jumpstarted at 1900hrs' and then saying you weren't upto date : I find it a little odd in the extreme that you would be aware of so little of the story, but are able to offer up what you have in your post above.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by angus58

Clearly the crap dispenser is a graduate from the Frankie Boyle School of Comedy

Absolutely!

[mrscolumbo]

Pyramid - didn't express there was a struggle in this case - but if it was someone lying in wait or just passing by and took the poortunity to pounce on Joanna as she put out the rubbish then a struggle would ensue leaving in its wake forensic evidence - my point was that lack of forensic evidence to suggest a stranger give raise to a motive of someone nearer home.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

Pyramid - didn't express there was a struggle in this case - but if it was someone lying in wait or just passing by and took the poortunity to pounce on Joanna as she put out the rubbish then a struggle would ensue leaving in its wake forensic evidence - my point was that lack of forensic evidence to suggest a stranger give raise to a motive of someone nearer home.

You appeared to dismiss the 'opportunist' angle, by way of your reasoning in respect of 'forensic evidence', 'struggle would be evident': which is why I asked what I did - and then you add your thoughts, "Which makes it pre-meditated or a crime of passion".

Which again, is why I asked what I did.

Out of interest, what would your replies to my other questions be?

[Iceman]

Holding a news conference at 3PM.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Holding a news conference at 3PM.

Thanks for that Iceman!

[mrscolumbo]

Pyramid - lets take the malice aforthought could be someone who was resentful/held a grudge or anger these emotions would imply someone near to Joanna - crime of passion again could be resentful/grudge/anger only done spare of the moment without thought or consequence and again by someone very close to Joanna.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

Pyramid - lets take the malice aforthought could be someone who was resentful/held a grudge or anger these emotions would imply someone near to Joanna - crime of passion again could be resentful/grudge/anger only done spare of the moment without thought or consequence and again by someone very close to Joanna.

That doesn't really answer the things that I asked though in response to your post earlier though, does it? Not that it matters, it's hardly as though you are obliged to answer or reply to anything and clearly you're unwilling to do that - no harm done!

It could any manner of things: from the downright obscure and offbeat reason - to a random burglary that went horribly wrong - to the boyfriend bumping her off. Which led onto the points I raised to you, in respect of your dismissal of the 'opportunist' angle, I asked why (and in many ways) you appear to be dismissing that - in favour of 'Crime of passion / pre-meditated'.

Personally, I'm not convinced it was. If it was pre-meditated, the killer surely would have thought of a far better hiding place for the body.

[mrscolumbo]

Pyramid - IMHO the culprit is male and was known to Joanna therefore indicating one or other of my theories also strangulation was the cause of death therefore indicationg that it was someone Joanna was happy to allow into her personal space.

[Harry!]

BBC News are asking if anyone knows about the location of the Pizza and what she might of done with it.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

Pyramid - IMHO the culprit is male and was known to Joanna therefore indicating one or other of my theories also strangulation was the cause of death therefore indicationg that it was someone Joanna was happy to allow into her personal space.

Still no reply ref my many other questions...hay ho.

A male being statistically proven to be of the highest possibiities in any crime involving strangulation isn't really news breaking stuff really though. Statistically: given that she was strangled, the chances that the killer was a male are high.

Known to her? As much a possiblity as much as it may be a complete red herring - I did certainly have the initial thought at the beginning (and not only known, but a person VERY close to her), but now... mmmm.... not so sure at all.

****************************

News conference basically saying not a lot. Looks very much like the police have not a lot to be going on - I noted that it was stated by one of the reporters that CJ had been released on bail having been charged with NO crime. (ie: he is still being considered a suspect). Given what must be very scant info/evidence that the police have - I think it's pretty lame that he is still being labelled 'a suspect'.

Missing Pizza and wrapping - police 8/9 days into this are still unable to determine at this stage whether the pizza was eaten by Jo or not. Surely examining and determining the contents of a person's stomach can't be that time consuming....unless.... she did eat the pizza on Friday but didn't 'disappear' on the Friday - but disappeared after her body had digested and expelled the contents of her stomach, including said pizza.

Searching through 239tonnes of household rubbish - how many pizza boxes of this nature are purchased in this area? Presumably bar coding will allow them to determine if any boxes the found, allows the box to be deemed to be the one containing the pizza Joanna purchased?

Suddenly looking for a beige / light coloured 4x4. If so interested in this and thinking this may be linked to the crime: why is CJ still being considered - given that he does not have a 4 x 4 vehicle?

From where I am sitting: the police have absolutely nada. Or they are deliberately withholding info - as not a lot of this makes sense.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Harry!

BBC News are asking if anyone knows about the location of the Pizza and what she might of done with it.

I reckon she ate the pizza, flung the wrapping in the bin whilst it was cooking: which are now sitting in amongst that pile of 239 tonnes of rubbish that the police are sifting through.

I'm really 'missing' something re this pizza box not being available. Short of possible finger prints on it - there has been nothing mentioned of bodily fluids - what precisely are they hoping to find from it? Do they suspect the killer took a bite out of the box and that the 'bite impression' might match someone's dental record?

Something very strange that they are homing in on this so much - that they are not revealing.

[mrscolumbo]

Consider the police have made a complete and utter a**e of the investigation - the longer it goes on the colder the case becomes - shouldn't think for one moment the owner of the light coloured 4x4 seen in the area on the night of the 17th is likely to come forward - could well have been an innocent courting couple looking for a quiet place to park up - after the police handling of Mr Jefferies as a suspect and their desperation to nail somebody I suspect they have lost the confidence of the innocent public to come forward with any information especially if it puts them anywhere near the seen of the crime!

[mrscolumbo]

Consider this Pyramid if a certain persons fingerprints are on the pizza box who at the time of her purchasing the item claims was somewhere else then they have the culprit - that is why IMHO they are putting so much store on finding the packaging.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

Consider the police have made a complete and utter a**e of the investigation - the longer it goes on the colder the case becomes - shouldn't think for one moment the owner of the light coloured 4x4 seen in the area on the night of the 17th is likely to come forward - could well have been an innocent courting couple looking for a quiet place to park up - after the police handling of Mr Jefferies as a suspect and their desperation to nail somebody I suspect they have lost the confidence of the innocent public to come forward with any information especially if it puts them anywhere near the seen of the crime!

Given that I said something very similar yesterday : I totally agree on that point!

After the way CJ has been castigated up till this point - anyone going near the police even with the smallest piece of info after the way this has been handled so far, would quite seriously, have to have to be insane.

In absolute fairness: it's not necessarily been the police handling of the matter - they are quite at liberty to take a person into custody for questioning as long as they have reasonable cause to do so. That said, I'm not convinced that they did have as much 'reasonable cause' as they perhaps thought they did -but I'll mitigate that by stating that they must have had their 'reasons' - none which appear to have been enough, thus having to release the man without charge.

It was the media who created the problem as far as CJ is concerned, and in the interim, have most likely, damaged any chance of the public being as willing to be compliant in offering any possible assistance.

In all honestly: at this stage of the game, if it were me and I suddenly thought, "Oh hang on.... I remember when I drove past there in my nice 4 x 4, I saw this".......

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

Consider this Pyramid if a certain persons fingerprints are on the pizza box who at the time of her purchasing the item claims was somewhere else then they have the culprit - that is why IMHO they are putting so much store on finding the packaging.

Really !!! LOL


who could have handled the pizza box ... oh I wonder..... *thinks for a split second*... lots of people!

At point of manufacture.

At point of being packed to store

At point of being unpacked at store.

At point of being placed in freezer at store

At point of another customer picking it up, then placing it back in freezer

At point of checkout assistant charging it on till

At point of Joanna touching it

At point of being emptied into bin lorry, wind could have caught it as bin emptied, bin man (not wearing gloves) could have picked it up and thrown in bin lorry....
yeah.....

Oh...and of course, the possibility of it being the killer.

You're not living up to your name much here really !!!

[mrscolumbo]

Fair comment Pyramid but if there are fingerprints that shouldn't be on the packaging and they belong to a 'suspect' bit hard for that 'suspect' to protest his innocence anymore - case closed.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by mrscolumbo

Fair comment Pyramid but if there are fingerprints that shouldn't be on the packaging and they belong to a 'suspect' bit hard for that 'suspect' to protest his innocence anymore - case closed.

This of course could be a possibility - but I guess it's the only thing that the police have on their only suspect - which at this point in time, still remains that they have nothing on him.

In response to your assumption earlier

if a certain persons fingerprints are on the pizza box who at the time of her purchasing the item claims was somewhere else then they have the culprit

- who is to say that Joanna's bin wasn't overflowing, CJ had been putting something in his own bin, noticed the overflowing bin of Joanna's, of which the pizza box was one of the things hanging over the edge, he lifts lid and pushes the box down to allow lid to close.

CJ's prints on a pizza box could have very plausible reason for it - and not beyond all comprehension either.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

This of course could be a possibility - but I guess it's the only thing that the police have on their only suspect - which at this point in time, still remains that they have nothing on him.

In response to your assumption earlier - who is to say that Joanna's bin wasn't overflowing, CJ had been putting something in his own bin, noticed the overflowing bin of Joanna's, of which the pizza box was one of the things hanging over the edge, he lifts lid and pushes the box down to allow lid to close.

CJ's prints on a pizza box could have very plausible reason for it - and not beyond all comprehension either.

I really think the police are only focusing on the pizza box and the mysterious 4x4 in the absence of anything else to go on. It's amazing really that there is such a complete and utter lack of any hard evidence.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by angus58

I really think the police are only focusing on the pizza box and the mysterious 4x4 in the absence of anything else to go on. It's amazing really that there is such a complete and utter lack of any hard evidence.

The pizza box... unless there is something on Joanna's body that would indicate the need to find the box which the police have chosen not to make public for whatever reason - I'm mystified for all the reasons I've metioned earlier.

As for the 4x4. Given that's only pretty recent development (on the back of the 'vehicle being driven oddly and doing a 'u turn' a few days ago: I have to agree.

There seems to be great focus on DNA from the front door also: but not much is being mentioned - was it kicked in? Are there footprints on the door?

Was it a break-in/burglar who 'chibbed' there way in hence so much focus on the door? Did Joanna disturb them - is there blood on the box, does Jo have anything under fingernails to link to a killer? So many questions!!

I am beginning to think the police really have nothing tangible at all and are having to grasp at straws.

[InOne]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12108338

So not sexually assaulted but not ruling out a sexual motive, hmmm.

[mrscolumbo]

Ah so the packaging - if it is ever found - could implicate an innocent person too - someone who was keeping the residents bin area clean and clear of rubbish like the good landlord Mr Jefferies would do.

[mrscolumbo]

No sexual assualt - however consensual intercourse may have taken place before Joanna's death - think that must rule out certain people.

[JobsForTheBoys]

The pizza box and the door will have vital pieces of the killers DNA on them.

The pizza box will have been disposed of for one reason only and thats because the killers DNA will have been on or inside the box. It will have been slightly harder to dispose of the front door in the same way as the pizza box and thats why the police have taken it away to be painstakenly scrutinised.

Yes there will be loads of fingerprints on it from delivery men and postmen etc. But what they are trying to find are fingerprints with pizza on them which can be matched to the pizza she bought. I think they can date fingerprints to within 6 hours.

One point to ponder on is that it seems highly likely she knew the killer to let him share her pizza because a random killer coming in off the street would not bother about sitting down and cooking or eating someones pizza after he has just killed somebody. And its unlikely she would have offered him a piece beforehand. So why would a stranger bother about taking a pizza box???

I have referred to the killer as a "he" because I dont think its a "she"

[mrscolumbo]

Well put Jobsfortheboys - I consider the packaging (inner) to hold vital dna as it would have only been handled by Joanna and the culprit - if the culprit swept the apartment clean as to leave no evidence as what had taken place on the evening of the 17th - probably not even the need for wearing marigolds etc to clean up - person must have been mighty relieved that the bins had been emptied on the Tuesday morning especially once the police had made a link with the timeline of the purchase of the pizza and Joanna's murder a couple of days later.