[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

My gender doesn't matter and it's quite ironic that you've brought it into the discussion considering what it's about. Quite hypocritical.

I think you're argument is ridiculously stereotypical and overly emotional. Islam does not equal domestic abuse, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist I'm just saying it's wrong to tar an entire group of diverse people with the same brush. Some women WILL choose to wear the Burkha, some won't. The point I'm making is that it should be THEIR decision to choose either way, not anybody else's. You seem to think that I'm some mysogynistic man who's pro Burkha and I'm not. I don't like the connotations of it BUT I believe in Women having the liberty of making their own choices.

These women don't know what liberty is though.. They don't know any better and are never ever free to make their own choices. From birth they are merely know as a daughter of such and such or the wife of such and such.
Most have "masters" all their lives

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by happyland

These women don't know what liberty is though.. They don't know any better and are never ever free to make their own choices. From birth they are merely know as a daughter of such and such or the wife of such and such.
Most have "masters" all their lives

But that goes back to the point about tarring all of them with the same brush, creating the image that all burkha wearers must really be oppressed females who have been forced to wear this garment and just havent realised it yet..

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

But that goes back to the point about tarring all of them with the same brush, creating the image that all burkha wearers must really be oppressed females who have been forced to wear this garment and just havent realised it yet..

To be honest.. to bring a girl up with the belief that she must cover herself from head to foot IS oppresion. Many aren't forced but just accept it, as this has always been their way. But whether they feel forced or wear one willingly or not, surely the whole thing just symbolises oppresion in it's purest form? something which , in our civilised world should not be encouraged?

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by happyland

To be honest.. to bring a girl up with the belief that she must cover herself from head to foot IS oppresion. Many aren't forced but just accept it, as this has always been their way. But whether they feel forced or wear one willingly or not, surely the whole thing just symbolises oppresion in it's purest form? something which , in our civilised world should not be encouraged?

Absolutely spot on.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

No, because it's not gender specific and it's not a direct reference to the demand for subservience from women.
Again, where, exactly, did I say that the women aren't "capable" of making the decision. Of course they're capable. They're societally oppressed, religiously oppressed and, sadly, oppressed by every male in their household. The wearing of a burkha is the surrender of the spirit, and I really feel sad and sorry for anyone who won't or can't see that.

It might not be gender exclusive but it is usually worn by Jewish men and not Jewish woman

And by banning the burkha clearly you are saying they are not capable of making the decision for themselves. You are trying to impose your views on other people, in a sense you are oppressing them by refusing to allow them to wear something they consider essential to their religion.

Originally Posted by happyland

To be honest.. to bring a girl up with the belief that she must cover herself from head to foot IS oppresion. Many aren't forced but just accept it, as this has always been their way. But whether they feel forced or wear one willingly or not, surely the whole thing just symbolises oppresion in it's purest form? something which , in our civilised world should not be encouraged?

I dont think it's necessarily a symbol of repression and whether you do or do not is subjective really. A willing wearer of the burkha might think it brings them closer to God, and it is their way of expressing their faith. Personally I dont understand it but touching on the point of living in a civilised society, I think we should be tolerant and respectful of others beliefs. If it is considered of extreme importance to them then they can go ahead and wear it in my eyes.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It might not be gender exclusive but it is usually worn by Jewish men and not Jewish woman

And by banning the burkha clearly you are saying they are not capable of making the decision for themselves. You are trying to impose your views on other people, in a sense you are oppressing them by refusing to allow them to wear something they consider essential to their religion.



I dont think it's necessarily a symbol of repression and whether you do or do not is subjective really. A willing wearer of the burkha might think it brings them closer to God, and it is their way of expressing their faith. Personally I dont understand it but touching on the point of living in a civilised society, I think we should be tolerant and respectful of others beliefs. If it is considered of extreme importance to them then they can go ahead and wear it in my eyes.

You do realise that's straight out of the Book of Fundamentalist Justifications, don't you?
An dangerous and highly inaccurate argument - in my opinion.
We should be more respectful of rights and equality than of beliefs.