[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Nope, no problem with people commenting on it. Problem with people making me out to be racist based on one comment though. And what on earth do you mean my history with such topics?

And no, your ontopic part was NOT part of the original post. I can see the first edit btw. So no jumping to conclusions here

What? You cannot possibly know that? How do you know I dont edit my posts in say notepad++ then cut and paste. I find it funny the way you jump to such wild conclusions.

No one is implying you're a racist but you made a biased comments that we are all entitled to comment on.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by angus58

So basically it's the prerogative of the person making the comment to determine whether or not he is insulting, offending and/or abusing the person to whom the comment is directed? Therefore no consideration needs to be given to the way in which the comment is received or the insult, abuse and/or offence being caused to the recipient of unsolicited comments which are, after all, merely opinions or "just words" directed towards them? Ooookay - whatever

only the person making the comment knows how it was intended. If you don't say something with any malice or ill intent then I don't think others have the right to twist it that way.

and you need to be consistent because Ive certainly seen many comments from you that are very hardfaced and totally lacking in any compassion. But now you wanna be all precious about a term like jew central?

whatever indeed!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by angus58

So basically it's the prerogative of the person making the comment to determine whether or not he is insulting, offending and/or abusing the person to whom the comment is directed? Therefore no consideration needs to be given to the way in which the comment is received or the insult, abuse and/or offence being caused to the recipient of unsolicited comments which are, after all, merely opinions or "just words" directed towards them? Ooookay - whatever

Would you have been so insulted if I, for example, referred to a street I used to live on as 'blondie avenue'? Just curious

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

What? You cannot possibly know that? How do you know I dont edit my posts in say notepad++ then cut and paste. I find it funny the way you jump to such wild conclusions.

What I meant is..I can see the first post you made. And then what it was edited to

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Would you have been so insulted if I, for example, referred to a street I used to live on as 'blondie avenue'? Just curious

I'm not at all insulted by anything you or anyone else has said on this thread, since I am debating from a philosophical and theoretical viewpoint, and offering my point of view (or have I misunderstood what "serious debates" is supposed to be about?). I am not Jewish but I can see that certain comments made on here would be considered offensive by a Jew. I am not blonde, but maybe that comment would also be offensive to someone who is. Who knows?

I have already stated that there is no such thing, in my opinion, as freedom of speech to say whatever you like. Anyone who believes there is, is seriously mistaken as they would find to their cost if they want to test that in real life and go insult some random strangers. You made the statement that they are "only words" which is probably the most disingenuous comment I have read so far.

[Vicky.]

But to me, it is only words. Others might think differently. I personally dont get offended by things people say. Though with the rant in question (that the threads actually about) after watching the video, I do see how people will be offended by it. But I still stand by what I said about the women he was speaking to didnt actually seem offended at the time, nor do I think he was inciting hatred. Just being an ignorant drunken fool :S

And as I have said a few times in this thread, and in the other if I remember rightly, 'jew central' is just a passing phrase to me. Maybe that is also ignorance on my part, but I dont see it any different to calling (as already used as an example) a street 'blondie avenue' because it is full of blondes. I really dont.

And I also would not be offended the other way round. Eg. If someone called my street 'speccy street' (as I wear glasses, was the first thing I could think of ) Maybe Im just not easily offended or as delicate as others. Who knows.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by angus58

I'm not at all insulted by anything you or anyone else has said on this thread, since I am debating from a philosophical and theoretical viewpoint, and offering my point of view (or have I misunderstood what "serious debates" is supposed to be about?). I am not Jewish but I can see that certain comments made on here would be considered offensive by a Jew. I am not blonde, but maybe that comment would also be offensive to someone who is. Who knows?

I have already stated that there is no such thing, in my opinion, as freedom of speech to say whatever you like. Anyone who believes there is, is seriously mistaken as they would find to their cost if they want to test that in real life and go insult some random strangers. You made the statement that they are "only words" which is probably the most disingenuous comment I have read so far.

I think your comments about Muslims in the past have been a hell of a lot more offensive than calling an area heavily populated by Jewish people as "Jew central"

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zippy;4156238[B

]only the person making the comment knows how it was intended. If you don't say something with any malice or ill intent then I don't think others have the right to twist it that way. [/B]


and you need to be consistent because Ive certainly seen many comments from you that are very hardfaced and totally lacking in any compassion. But now you wanna be all precious about a term like jew central?

whatever indeed!

So the recipient of a comment has to now be psychic in order to determine whether the speaker "meant it" maliciously or not? It really astounds me on this forum the number of people who don't understand the difference between personal opinion and playing the devil's advocate.

Oh, I'm nothing if not consistent, there is no ambiguity about my comments - I don't hide behind political correctness, nor do I court popularity on what is essentially a debating forum. If I feel strongly about something I will state my case and I only react to others' insults, I don't set out to deliberately offend individuals as so many on here do. Friends I have a plenty in real life, I have no need to make psuedo friends in cyberspace. No fake camaraderie or sad cliques for me. There's always the "ignore" option available to anyone hacked off with me and my opinions - feel free.

[Zippy]

I can't even remember when I last got offended by anybodies comments. You'd have to say something pretty extreme. But even then I'd just dismiss you as an idiot probably.

whereas others seem so fragile and oversensitive you wonder why they even crawled out from under their duvets.

Im sure really fat people hear insulting comments everyday they step out of the front door. I don't think the law offers them much protection. But insult somebodies race or sexuality and its apparently a clear cut case. This is what I find so ridiculous and unfair. We all know Galliano wouldnt be facing prosecution if he'd been ranting fat insults at those women. Even though they'd probably be more hurtful to them.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I can't even remember when I last got offended by anybodies comments. You'd have to say something pretty extreme. But even then I'd just dismiss you as an idiot probably.

whereas others seem so fragile and oversensitive you wonder why they even crawled out from under their duvets.

Im sure really fat people hear insulting comments everyday they step out of the front door. I don't think the law offers them much protection. But insult somebodies race or sexuality and its apparently a clear cut case. This is what I find so ridiculous and unfair. We all know Galliano wouldnt be facing prosecution if he'd been ranting fat insults at those women. Even though they'd probably be more hurtful to them.

You cannot quantify the level of "hurt" someone feelsunless you have been discriminated against. And I don't just mean name calling. Trust me, Vicky's comments are small fry compared to what I've put up with from some people over the years and I'm sure those people would feel justified in their comments as they were "their own opinon". Indeed, I have had MUCH worse than Vicky's comments directed at me on this forum, depsite the fact it says in the rules that any kind of racial abuse "will not be tolerated". Ha! So much for that. Feeling irked at some people's stupidity and tactlessness doesn't make me fragile and oversensitive, it makes me angry.

I said in my reply to Vicky that I wasn't insulted simply because I am a Jew; I was insulted because she is a moderator here. A moderator who hands out infractions and bans for what she considers to be rule breaks, and yet she has not only posted something clumsy and tactless, she has struggled in post after post to justify herself.... and added emoticons presumably to make her point stronger.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Livia

You cannot quantify the level of "hurt" someone feelsunless you have been discriminated against. And I don't just mean name calling. Trust me, Vicky's comments are small fry compared to what I've put up with from some people over the years and I'm sure those people would feel justified in their comments as they were "their own opinon". Indeed, I have had MUCH worse than Vicky's comments directed at me on this forum, depsite the fact it says in the rules that any kind of racial abuse "will not be tolerated". Ha! So much for that. Feeling irked at some people's stupidity and tactlessness doesn't make me fragile and oversensitive, it makes me angry.

I said in my reply to Vicky that I wasn't insulted simply because I am a Jew; I was insulted because she is a moderator here. A moderator who hands out infractions and bans for what she considers to be rule breaks, and yet she has not only posted something clumsy and tactless, she has struggled in post after post to justify herself.... and added emoticons presumably to make her point stronger.

It does seem that some people are incapable of "walking in someone else's shoes". The "I'm not offended, so therefore I can't see why you are" statements just show a complete lack of empathy.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by angus58

It does seem that some people are incapable of "walking in someone else's shoes". The "I'm not offended, so therefore I can't see why you are" statements just show a complete lack of empathy.

whereas you just ooze empathy, sympathy and compassion, right?

pmsl

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zippy

whereas you just ooze empathy, sympathy and compassion, right?

pmsl

For those that deserve it, yes, and you don't fall into that category. I note you have avoided responding to Livia's post - but then you can't really, can you?

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by angus58

I note you have avoided responding to Livia's post - but then you can't really, can you?

there's nothing to respond to. If thats her feelings so be it.

It's mostly about Vicky anyways and I can't speak for her

so be quiet and mind your own business