[Kerry]

You defend yourself. They die

Should you be punished? Go to jail?

Should you have to pay their family compensation?

(and yes, just seen a programme on the Tony Martin case)

Me - no, no and no. If someone breaks into my house, I and my family are at risk. I'll do whatever it takes to defend that.

Compensation - go whistle.

[Ramsay]

no

[MTVN]

Generally, no. I believe in private property rights really and, by extension, the right to defend your property. Although if you catch someone and they try to run away you dont have the right to chase them down or take them down and kick them to death or anything like that

[Zippy]

generally no.

but each case is different. Cant just catch a burglar and kill him!

comes down to reasonable force.

[Tom.]

Most of the time, if someone breaks into your house and the property owner catches them in the act, they'll run away

I believe people should be able to defend themselves, but you can defend yourself without killing someone. It should only really result in death if such a force has been used against you

You'll only probably end up serving 5 or 6 years anyway

[Stacey.]

No to the first two questions. I don't know what compensation means though. hehe.

[Vicky.]

Nah, They broke in they should take the consequences.

I hate the 'reasonable force' rule in general. Yeah...a random stranger attacks you...you are sure to think 'oh I shouldnt hit him my hardest incase it hurts them too much' or whatever

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Tom.

I believe people should be able to defend themselves, but you can defend yourself without killing someone. It should only really result in death if such a force has been used against you

problem is that in the heat of the moment its hard to determine reasonable force. To stop them hurting you they need to be stopped. Ideally you'd just knock them unconscious. But that could easily also knock them dead.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by Stacey.

No to the first two questions. I don't know what compensation means though. hehe.

You'd have to pay the family money for their loss/grief etc. in short. Thousands usually

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Nah, They broke in they should take the consequences.

I hate the 'reasonable force' rule in general. Yeah...a random stranger attacks you...you are sure to think 'oh I shouldnt hit him my hardest incase it hurts them too much' or whatever

Reasonable force is a like for like thing. If they punch you, punch them back, don't run at them with a knife or something. Thats all it means

[Jordan.]

Depends, if the burglar came at you with an intention to kill you I think its fair to put it down as self defense and you shouldn't be punished.

However I don't think it'd be right just to kill the burglar just for being on your property before attempting to restrain or warn them off. If they then turn around and attack you fair do's.

[Kerry]

Reasonable force to me is, if someones on my landing, it's dark and they shouldn't be there, whatever is in my hand gets wrapped around their head.

They should NOT be there.

ETA - If they're running away no I wouldn't attack them

[_Seth]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Generally, no. I believe in private property rights really and, by extension, the right to defend your property. Although if you catch someone and they try to run away you dont have the right to chase them down or take them down and kick them to death or anything like that

This.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Nah, They broke in they should take the consequences.

I hate the 'reasonable force' rule in general. Yeah...a random stranger attacks you...you are sure to think 'oh I shouldnt hit him my hardest incase it hurts them too much' or whatever

but the OP doesnt say they attacked you first. I think if they did then you would probably get away with killing them in self defence.

I think in the Tony Martin case he shot them when they were in retreat. Thats why he was done for manslaughter.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Reasonable force is a like for like thing. If they punch you, punch them back, don't run at them with a knife or something. Thats all it means

Not quite. I was locked up for using too much force on some bitch who attacked me in the town. Just because she was bleeding/bruised more than me

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Generally, no. I believe in private property rights really and, by extension, the right to defend your property. Although if you catch someone and they try to run away you dont have the right to chase them down or take them down and kick them to death or anything like that

I agree with this view too.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

but the OP doesnt say they attacked you first. I think if they did then you would probably get away with killing them in self defence.

I think in the Tony Martin case he shot them when they were in retreat. Thats why he was done for manslaughter.

Might seem harsh, but Im still kinda of the opinion that they shouldnt be breaking in so they deserve whatever they get :/

Edit. And I know nothing of this tony martin thing either, should read more news

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Might seem harsh, but Im still kinda of the opinion that they shouldnt be breaking in so they deserve whatever they get :/

Edit. And I know nothing of this tony martin thing either, should read more news

wiki

In 1999, Martin, a bachelor, was living alone at his farmhouse in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, nicknamed Bleak House, which he inherited at age 35 from his uncle.[2] He claimed to have been burgled a total of ten times, losing £6,000 worth of furniture. Martin also complained about police inaction over the burglaries. The police reports state that multiple items and furniture were stolen such as dinner ware and a grandfather clock.[citation needed]

On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars – Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 – broke into Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window. Shooting downwards in the dark, with a pump-action Winchester shotgun he owned illegally, Martin shot towards the intruders. Fearon was hit in the leg, and Barras in the back. Barras escaped through the window but died at the scene.[1]

On 10 January 2000, Fearon and Darren Bark, 33 (who had acted as the getaway driver), both from Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire, admitted to conspiring to burgle Martin's farmhouse. Fearon was sentenced to three years in prison, and Bark to 30 months [3] (with an additional 12 months arising from previous offences). Fearon was released on 10 August 2001.[3] Fred Barras, the dead youth, had accumulated a lengthy criminal record, having been arrested 29 times by the time of his death at the age of 16, and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture. Barras' grandmother, Mary Dolan, stated: "It's not fair that the farmer has got all the money and he is the one that took Fred away.[4]

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

wiki

In 1999, Martin, a bachelor, was living alone at his farmhouse in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, nicknamed Bleak House, which he inherited at age 35 from his uncle.[2] He claimed to have been burgled a total of ten times, losing £6,000 worth of furniture. Martin also complained about police inaction over the burglaries. The police reports state that multiple items and furniture were stolen such as dinner ware and a grandfather clock.[citation needed]

On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars – Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 – broke into Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window. Shooting downwards in the dark, with a pump-action Winchester shotgun he owned illegally, Martin shot towards the intruders. Fearon was hit in the leg, and Barras in the back. Barras escaped through the window but died at the scene.[1]

On 10 January 2000, Fearon and Darren Bark, 33 (who had acted as the getaway driver), both from Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire, admitted to conspiring to burgle Martin's farmhouse. Fearon was sentenced to three years in prison, and Bark to 30 months [3] (with an additional 12 months arising from previous offences). Fearon was released on 10 August 2001.[3] Fred Barras, the dead youth, had accumulated a lengthy criminal record, having been arrested 29 times by the time of his death at the age of 16, and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture. Barras' grandmother, Mary Dolan, stated: "It's not fair that the farmer has got all the money and he is the one that took Fred away.[4]

This is a huge problem IMO. And part of the reason some take the law into their own hands(rightly or wrongly)

Basically, police are useless and all they seem to care about is keeping the paperwork up :/

[Zippy]

I think its shocking how burglaries are not taken all that seriously. That 16yr old who died was arrested 29 times before his death yet only had done 2 months in detention!

Invading somebodies home should have huge consequences I think.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I think its shocking how burglaries are not taken all that seriously. That 16yr old who died was arrested 29 times before his death yet only had done 2 months in detention!

Invading somebodies home should have huge consequences I think.

Well it seems it does...if you break into the right house

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This is a huge problem IMO. And part of the reason some take the law into their own hands(rightly or wrongly)

Basically, police are useless and all they seem to care about is keeping the paperwork up :/

The police can't do everything though and its unlikely he'd have had a description of who had robbed him, so obviously the police physically can't do anything. In that case the owner should have upped the security measures more effectively or even moved out, especially when it gets to 10 times and a loss of £6k.

If he owned a shotgun illegally and used it, then he deserves everything he gets, burglary or no burglary.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Tom.

The police can't do everything though and its unlikely he'd have had a description of who had robbed him, so obviously the police physically can't do anything. In that case the owner should have upped the security measures more effectively or even moved out, especially when it gets to 10 times and a loss of £6k.

If he owned a shotgun illegally and used it, then he deserves everything he gets, burglary or no burglary.

sorry but thats ridiculous!

he was just minding his own business in his own home ffs. He's the victim here, cearly. And who can blame him for having a gun after being invaded that many times without any protection from the police? he was probably scared witless by the time of the shootings.

Free Tony Martin!! Oh wait, he's already out...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

sorry but thats ridiculous!

he was just minding his own business in his own home ffs. He's the victim here, cearly. And who can blame him for having a gun after being invaded that many times without any protection from the police? he was probably scared witless by the time of the shootings.

Free Tony Martin!! Oh wait, he's already out...

I was going to say that but couldnt think of a way of putting it.

I hate this kinda...put the blame on the victim for not doing enough mentality.. so much :S

And as the upping security in his home thing...he did that, he got a shotgun...

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

sorry but thats ridiculous!

he was just minding his own business in his own home ffs. He's the victim here, cearly. And who can blame him for having a gun after being invaded that many times without any protection from the police? he was probably scared witless by the time of the shootings.

Free Tony Martin!! Oh wait, he's already out...

I'm not disputing that he's the victim, but he's not exactly squeaky clean himself. 3 years in prison isn't bad for a firearms offence.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I was going to say that but couldnt think of a way of putting it.

I hate this kinda...put the blame on the victim for not doing enough mentality.. so much :S

And as the upping security in his home thing...he did that, he got a shotgun...

Maybe he should have bought better windows and doors, some cameras, an alarm etc like the rest of us do