[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

but the OP doesnt say they attacked you first. I think if they did then you would probably get away with killing them in self defence.

I think in the Tony Martin case he shot them when they were in retreat. Thats why he was done for manslaughter.

Might seem harsh, but Im still kinda of the opinion that they shouldnt be breaking in so they deserve whatever they get :/

Edit. And I know nothing of this tony martin thing either, should read more news

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Might seem harsh, but Im still kinda of the opinion that they shouldnt be breaking in so they deserve whatever they get :/

Edit. And I know nothing of this tony martin thing either, should read more news

wiki

In 1999, Martin, a bachelor, was living alone at his farmhouse in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, nicknamed Bleak House, which he inherited at age 35 from his uncle.[2] He claimed to have been burgled a total of ten times, losing £6,000 worth of furniture. Martin also complained about police inaction over the burglaries. The police reports state that multiple items and furniture were stolen such as dinner ware and a grandfather clock.[citation needed]

On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars – Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 – broke into Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window. Shooting downwards in the dark, with a pump-action Winchester shotgun he owned illegally, Martin shot towards the intruders. Fearon was hit in the leg, and Barras in the back. Barras escaped through the window but died at the scene.[1]

On 10 January 2000, Fearon and Darren Bark, 33 (who had acted as the getaway driver), both from Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire, admitted to conspiring to burgle Martin's farmhouse. Fearon was sentenced to three years in prison, and Bark to 30 months [3] (with an additional 12 months arising from previous offences). Fearon was released on 10 August 2001.[3] Fred Barras, the dead youth, had accumulated a lengthy criminal record, having been arrested 29 times by the time of his death at the age of 16, and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture. Barras' grandmother, Mary Dolan, stated: "It's not fair that the farmer has got all the money and he is the one that took Fred away.[4]

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

wiki

In 1999, Martin, a bachelor, was living alone at his farmhouse in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, nicknamed Bleak House, which he inherited at age 35 from his uncle.[2] He claimed to have been burgled a total of ten times, losing £6,000 worth of furniture. Martin also complained about police inaction over the burglaries. The police reports state that multiple items and furniture were stolen such as dinner ware and a grandfather clock.[citation needed]

On the night of 20 August 1999, two burglars – Brendon Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16 – broke into Bleak House.[3] When confronted, they attempted to flee through a window. Shooting downwards in the dark, with a pump-action Winchester shotgun he owned illegally, Martin shot towards the intruders. Fearon was hit in the leg, and Barras in the back. Barras escaped through the window but died at the scene.[1]

On 10 January 2000, Fearon and Darren Bark, 33 (who had acted as the getaway driver), both from Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire, admitted to conspiring to burgle Martin's farmhouse. Fearon was sentenced to three years in prison, and Bark to 30 months [3] (with an additional 12 months arising from previous offences). Fearon was released on 10 August 2001.[3] Fred Barras, the dead youth, had accumulated a lengthy criminal record, having been arrested 29 times by the time of his death at the age of 16, and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture. Barras' grandmother, Mary Dolan, stated: "It's not fair that the farmer has got all the money and he is the one that took Fred away.[4]

This is a huge problem IMO. And part of the reason some take the law into their own hands(rightly or wrongly)

Basically, police are useless and all they seem to care about is keeping the paperwork up :/

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This is a huge problem IMO. And part of the reason some take the law into their own hands(rightly or wrongly)

Basically, police are useless and all they seem to care about is keeping the paperwork up :/

The police can't do everything though and its unlikely he'd have had a description of who had robbed him, so obviously the police physically can't do anything. In that case the owner should have upped the security measures more effectively or even moved out, especially when it gets to 10 times and a loss of £6k.

If he owned a shotgun illegally and used it, then he deserves everything he gets, burglary or no burglary.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Tom.

The police can't do everything though and its unlikely he'd have had a description of who had robbed him, so obviously the police physically can't do anything. In that case the owner should have upped the security measures more effectively or even moved out, especially when it gets to 10 times and a loss of £6k.

If he owned a shotgun illegally and used it, then he deserves everything he gets, burglary or no burglary.

sorry but thats ridiculous!

he was just minding his own business in his own home ffs. He's the victim here, cearly. And who can blame him for having a gun after being invaded that many times without any protection from the police? he was probably scared witless by the time of the shootings.

Free Tony Martin!! Oh wait, he's already out...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

sorry but thats ridiculous!

he was just minding his own business in his own home ffs. He's the victim here, cearly. And who can blame him for having a gun after being invaded that many times without any protection from the police? he was probably scared witless by the time of the shootings.

Free Tony Martin!! Oh wait, he's already out...

I was going to say that but couldnt think of a way of putting it.

I hate this kinda...put the blame on the victim for not doing enough mentality.. so much :S

And as the upping security in his home thing...he did that, he got a shotgun...

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

sorry but thats ridiculous!

he was just minding his own business in his own home ffs. He's the victim here, cearly. And who can blame him for having a gun after being invaded that many times without any protection from the police? he was probably scared witless by the time of the shootings.

Free Tony Martin!! Oh wait, he's already out...

I'm not disputing that he's the victim, but he's not exactly squeaky clean himself. 3 years in prison isn't bad for a firearms offence.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I was going to say that but couldnt think of a way of putting it.

I hate this kinda...put the blame on the victim for not doing enough mentality.. so much :S

And as the upping security in his home thing...he did that, he got a shotgun...

Maybe he should have bought better windows and doors, some cameras, an alarm etc like the rest of us do

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Maybe he should have bought better windows and doors, some cameras, an alarm etc like the rest of us do

Yeah, if they want to be in, better windows etc will not stop them :/

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Maybe he should have bought better windows and doors, some cameras, an alarm etc like the rest of us do

Ive never bought any of those things. So apparently I deserve to be burgalled. By your logic.

And it got even more ridiculous when one of the burglars, Fearon, went on to sue him....OMFG the nerve;

During 2003, Fearon applied for, and received, an estimated £5,000 of legal aid to sue Martin for loss of earnings due to the injuries he had sustained.[13] However, the case was thrown into doubt when photographs were published in The Sun, showing him "cycling and climbing with little apparent difficulty" suggesting that Fearon's injuries were not as serious as had been claimed.[14] While the case was pending, Fearon was recalled to jail after being charged with the theft of a vehicle while on probation on a conviction for dealing heroin.[15] Fearon later dropped the case when Martin agreed to drop a counter-claim. Tens of thousands of pounds of public money had been spent on the case.[16]

[RichardG]

No, I believe that the minute they step into your house then they should lose all of their rights. I mean, yeah, you can't go overboard and start torturing the burgler for hours or anything like that but if you was to hit them to defend yourself and/or your family from the burgler and he happened to die then thats tough luck for the burgler. He shouldn't have stepped into your house in the first place so no one can complain if he was to get seriously injured or die.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Might seem harsh, but Im still kinda of the opinion that they shouldnt be breaking in so they deserve whatever they get :/

I agree totally.