[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm not altogether sure they even teach basic English.

English Royal History? Ah... Mary Queen of Scots - now there's bit of Royal History that isn't English. As for significance: I'd beg to differ - 2 million plus people yesterday would say otherwise!

It's the nation in which we all live - it's called History,

Are you telling me that schools no longer teach History?

Well the trouble with history is that there is err.. rather a lot of it. I'm doing it at A-Level now and I'm doing it at Uni next year and I know very little about Mary Queen of Scots, and anything I do know about the Royal Family hasnt been taught in school. But on the other hand, I've been taught very well on equally significant and important topics such as British Imperialism in the 19th century, Nazi Germany & the last years of Tsarism in Russia.

I also find it funny how people constantly criticse the education system when more people than ever are going on to higher education with A-levels and now University. People are generally so much more educated nowadays than a century ago, or even half a century ago.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well the trouble with history is that there is err.. rather a lot of it. I'm doing it at A-Level now and I'm doing it at Uni next year and I know very little about Mary Queen of Scots, and anything I do know about the Royal Family hasnt been taught in school. But on the other hand, I've been taught very well on equally significant and important topics such as British Imperialism in the 19th century, Nazi Germany & the last years of Tsarism in Russia.

I also find it funny how people constantly criticse the education system when more people than ever are going on to higher education with A-levels and now University. People are generally so much more educated nowadays than a century ago, or even half a century ago.

I think you will find that the standard of intelligence are not as high as they were, the entry standards to Uni etc are far more flexible than ever they were. There are people who cannot use the written language correctly who attend Uni for all sorts of degrees that never used to exist.

It's great that you appear to have learned much - and if not taught in school, you must have had that influence to learn more about certain aspects of history: either via your family, friends - at least you sought the information out. Many don't, and think it has no relevance - that's more my point.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I also find it funny how people constantly criticse the education system when more people than ever are going on to higher education with A-levels and now University.

It seems to me that most "new" universities are just jumped-up technical colleges providing qualifications in cookery, hairdressing, PE and "media studies" .....

Originally Posted by MTVN

People are generally so much more educated nowadays than a century ago, or even half a century ago.

That much is true, but the standards of literacy, numeracy and communication are half what they were .....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Omah

It seems to me that most "new" universities are just jumped-up technical colleges provising qualifications in cookery, hairdressing, PE and "media studies" .....


Exactly what I was getting at Omah, thank you.


That much is true, but the standards of literacy, numeracy and communication are half what they were .....

Again, precisely my own thoughts.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I think you will find that the standard of intelligence are not as high as they were, the entry standards to Uni etc are far more flexible than ever they were. There are people who cannot use the written language correctly who attend Uni for all sorts of degrees that never used to exist.

It's great that you appear to have learned much - and if not taught in school, you must have had that influence to learn more about certain aspects of history: either via your family, friends - at least you sought the information out. Many don't, and think it has no relevance - that's more my point.

Sure it's a lot easier to get into some Universities now and there's a lot wider choice of degree but at the same time more and more people every year are applying for Oxford and they've certainly not lowered their requirements, they're making it harder if anything. I dunno, I'm just not sure I buy the whole "what are they teaching these days?" argument

Originally Posted by Omah

It seems to me that most "new" universities are just jumped-up technical colleges provising qualifications in cookery, hairdressing, PE and "media studies" .....



That much is true, but the standards of literacy, numeracy and communication are half what they were .....

Not sure why media studies is always considered so worthless, I think it's very relevant in the world we live in today

And do you have proof that standards of literacy & numeracy has declined? That sounds like bull

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sure it's a lot easier to get into some Universities now and there's a lot wider choice of degree but at the same time more and more people every year are applying for Oxford and they've certainly not lowered their requirements, they're making it harder if anything. I dunno, I'm just not sure I buy the whole "what are they teaching these days?" argument



Not sure why media studies is always considered so worthless, I think it's very relevant in the world we live in today

And do you have proof that standards of literacy & numeracy has declined? That sounds like bull

Depends what type of media studies you mean

I did media at college, but we filmed a lot of projects (complete with a lot of paperwork), we learned studio filming, animation, stop animation ect. then of course the boring stuff.

Then theres those media courses that consist of watching films and discussing them

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not sure why media studies is always considered so worthless, I think it's very relevant in the world we live in today

The world SOME of us live in - most of the world lives in poverty :

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...and-stats#src1

At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day in countries where income differentials are widening.

According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty.

Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names.

How will media studies help them ?

Originally Posted by MTVN

And do you have proof that standards of literacy & numeracy has declined? That sounds like bull

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...eracy-numeracy

Poor literacy and maths skills leave teenagers ill-equipped

Some 22% of 16- to 19-year-olds in England are functionally innumerate – meaning their maths skills are limited to little more than basic arithmetic, researchers from Sheffield University discovered. This means their numeracy levels are at or below an 11-year-old's.

This is a higher rate of innumeracy than many other industrialised countries, the study of literacy and numeracy rates over the past 60 years found.

Meanwhile, 17% of 16- to 19-year-olds are functionallly illiterate – meaning they cannot handle much more than straightforward questions. It is unlikely, or even impossible, that they will understand allusion and irony, the researchers found. Their reading standard is at or below an 11-year-old's.

The researchers found teenagers' average reading scores had risen between 1948 and 1960 and remained "remarkably constant" between 1960 and 1988. Between 1997 and 2004, scores had "gently" risen and then plateaued. But they discovered little improvement in teenagers' writing between 1979 and 2004.

Given the increasing amount of "media" availability in the last 20 years in the form of cheap computer and communication devices, no improvement in reading, writing and 'rithmetic represents a comparative decline and is an indictment of the electronic age .....

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Omah

The world SOME of us live in - most of the world lives in poverty :

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...and-stats#src1



How will media studies help them ?

What is the relevancy of that? Mathematics doesnt solve the issue of global poverty either but clearly the media absolutely dominates society today, it is so influential.

Originally Posted by Omah

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...eracy-numeracy



Given the increasing amount of "media" availability in the last 20 years in the form of cheap computer and communication devices, no improvement in reading, writing and 'rithmetic represents a comparative decline and is an indictment of the electronic age .....

So reading has improved, and writing has but not by very much (and its only a short period of time), not declined as you were saying. That just goes to show standard of education has improved, even if it isnt as quick as you might like

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

What is the relevancy of that? Mathematics doesnt solve the issue of global poverty either but clearly the media absolutely dominates society today, it is so influential.

Again, media only dominates our society, not much of the rest of the world, where it has no influence at all - let's look at the water issue, for example, a necessity for life :

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...and-stats#src1

Water problems affect half of humanity:

Some 1.1 billion people in developing countries have inadequate access to water, and 2.6 billion lack basic sanitation.
Almost two in three people lacking access to clean water survive on less than $2 a day, with one in three living on less than $1 a day.
More than 660 million people without sanitation live on less than $2 a day, and more than 385 million on less than $1 a day.
Access to piped water into the household averages about 85% for the wealthiest 20% of the population, compared with 25% for the poorest 20%.
1.8 billion people who have access to a water source within 1 kilometre, but not in their house or yard, consume around 20 litres per day. In the United Kingdom the average person uses more than 50 litres of water a day flushing toilets (where average daily water usage is about 150 liters a day. The highest average water use in the world is in the US, at 600 liters day.)
Some 1.8 million child deaths each year as a result of diarrhoea
The loss of 443 million school days each year from water-related illness.
Close to half of all people in developing countries suffering at any given time from a health problem caused by water and sanitation deficits.
Millions of women spending several hours a day collecting water.
To these human costs can be added the massive economic waste associated with the water and sanitation deficit.… The costs associated with health spending, productivity losses and labour diversions … are greatest in some of the poorest countries. Sub-Saharan Africa loses about 5% of GDP, or some $28.4 billion annually, a figure that exceeds total aid flows and debt relief to the region in 2003.

Originally Posted by MTVN

So reading has improved, and writing has but not by very much (and its only a short period of time), not declined as you were saying. That just goes to show standard of education has improved, even if it isnt as quick as you might like

Given the resources of our society, particularly "media" the fact that the standard of teenage achievement in the 3 R's has not significantly increased is equivalent to a decline - I refer you again to the fact that :

Some 22% of 16- to 19-year-olds in England are functionally innumerate – meaning their maths skills are limited to little more than basic arithmetic, researchers from Sheffield University discovered. This means their numeracy levels are at or below an 11-year-old's.

Meanwhile, 17% of 16- to 19-year-olds are functionallly illiterate – meaning they cannot handle much more than straightforward questions. It is unlikely, or even impossible, that they will understand allusion and irony, the researchers found. Their reading standard is at or below an 11-year-old's.

That is, despite 11-14 years of education in English schools, a FIFTH of young adults can just about work out their "pocket money" and "read" a comic .....