[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

truth is, some women are attracted to controlling men and bad guys generally

then they start complaining when they act bad and controlling!

And adults should take control of their own lives. No its not easy to leave certain relationships..but is it easy to stay? No. So you basically way up which choice is easiest and sadly many women decide to stay in abusive relationships rather than take that leap into the unknown. Well thats their choice. Maybe they should choose better men in the first place.

If only life was as cut and dried as that. Truth is: it isn't.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

truth is, some women are attracted to controlling men and bad guys generally

then they start complaining when they act bad and controlling!

And adults should take control of their own lives. No its not easy to leave certain relationships..but is it easy to stay? No. So you basically way up which choice is easiest and sadly many women decide to stay in abusive relationships rather than take that leap into the unknown. Well thats their choice. Maybe they should choose better men in the first place.

This isn't a gender specific issue though, there are also plenty of men being "controlled" by their wife/girlfriend

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If only life was as cut and dried as that. Truth is: it isn't.

No but life is about choices and unless youre being held captive against your will then you have options. Its up to you to find the strength to get out of a bad relationship. After all, the woman chose him and got herself into it in the first place.

Plus every relationship has two sides. Just as a battered woman can make excuses for not having the strength to leave, the guy also has reasons for being that way too. Truth is, they are usually both bad for each other and bring out the worst. By staying and taking continual abuse you are feeding his troubles. One of them needs to break the cycle and its unlikely to be the one with the upperhand.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

This isn't a gender specific issue though, there are also plenty of men being "controlled" by their wife/girlfriend

Very true. It's only in recent years that we are hearing more and more about 'husband beaters' (to coin a phrase). As I said earlier: for every 'bad man', there's a 'bad woman'. It's not gender specific, that' for sure but it is more prevailant in men controlling women I think.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

This isn't a gender specific issue though, there are also plenty of men being "controlled" by their wife/girlfriend

well I was picking up from certain posts.

but my points still generally apply. Some men are attracted to domineering women and I would say exactly the same to them.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No but life is about choices and unless youre being held captive against your will then you have options. Its up to you to find the strength to get out of a bad relationship. After all, the woman chose him and got herself into it in the first place.

Plus every relationship has two sides. Just as a battered woman can make excuses for not having the strength to leave, the guy also has reasons for being that way too. Truth is, they are usually both bad for each other and bring out the worst. By staying and taking continual abuse you are feeding his troubles. One of them needs to break the cycle and its unlikely to be the one with the upperhand.

Which sounds a very plausible and reasonable way to look at it. However, unless you have been in that situation: what you think you will do, how you feel you would react, is often: the complete reverse. You have to have gone through to realise that it's not quite as simple as that - there are a myraid of factors that have to be built in - and before you know it, 'you're in it' - the very place you swore you'd 'kick any man into touch' with.......

I'm hardly a shy wall flower type as I'm sure you'll have guessed. If I can get suckered - anyone can!! Believe me, there's a damn sight more to it all that what you know you should do - and doing it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

well I was picking up from certain posts.

but my points still generally apply. Some men are attracted to domineering women and I would say exactly the same to them.

Well, going by my own experiences and people I actually know, the reasons men and women usually stay in those situations is because of kids not because they like to be dominated or are weak people

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, going by my own experiences and people I actually know, the reasons men and women usually stay in those situations is because of kids not because they like to be dominated or are weak people

well the kids often suffer too in abusive relationships so I don't get that logic.

My childhood memories are of constantly being gathered together with my sisters by my mum so we could run off to my aunts or mums friend. Yeah I grew up with an extremely violent and abusive stepfather. Then a few days later she'd go back to him and he'd be all nice to her. I quickly realised that she was as addicted to the situation as he was. Its like she enjoyed the part where he would beg her to come back. Eventually it took her nearly ten years to finally break away and it was a painfully slow and gradual process. Even when they moved to different cities they would still have to see each other regularly. So yeah, I have seen all this up close. He was as controlling as you can imagine.

Thankfully my sisters have benefitted from seeing this because they wouldnt put up with a controlling man for 2 minutes.

And you should also remember that some people doing actual enjoy being submissive and controlled. There are websites...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

well the kids often suffer too in abusive relationships so I don't get that logic.

My childhood memories are of constantly being gathered together with my sisters by my mum so we could run off to my aunts or mums friend. Yeah I grew up with an extremely violent and abusive stepfather. Then a few days later she'd go back to him and he'd be all nice to her. I quickly realised that she was as addicted to the situation as he was. Its like she enjoyed the part where he would beg her to come back. Eventually it took her nearly ten years to finally break away and it was a painfully slow and gradual process. Even when they moved to different cities they would still have to see each other regularly. So yeah, I have seen all this up close. He was as controlling as you can imagine.

Thankfully my sisters have benefitted from seeing this because they wouldnt put up with a controlling man for 2 minutes.

And you should also remember that some people doing actual enjoy being submissive and controlled. There are websites...

well, there is a difference between being abusive and being controlling and especially if you're a man and decide to leave, chances are the women will get custody of the kids so you're basically walking away and leaving your kids with this controlling person.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

well, there is a difference between being abusive and being controlling and especially if you're a man and decide to leave, chances are the women will get custody of the kids so you're basically walking away and leaving your kids with this controlling person.

Precisely what I mean as in previous posts about the variables, circumstances, etc ...... it's not always as clear cut as it sometimes appears to be.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Precisely what I mean as in previous posts about the variables, circumstances, etc ...... it's not always as clear cut as it sometimes appears to be.

absolutely, no two cases are the same and not always just because one of the people are "weak"

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

absolutely, no two cases are the same and not always just because one of the people are "weak"

I don't like the word, 'weak'. I don't think it's correct either. I prefer to use the term 'vulnerable' as that tends to be far more appropriate - they are vulnerable for all mannner of reasons, depending on the circumstances.

Still the pits either way and for those affected (partner, children, parents watching on helpless, friends the same).

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Precisely what I mean as in previous posts about the variables, circumstances, etc ...... it's not always as clear cut as it sometimes appears to be.

well what's your solution then?

we all know there's a million scenarios but what they all boil down to are weak minds and submissive dispositions. Neither myself or my sisters would ever be controlled in a relationship and I can say that for a fact.

Like with most things it all goes back to how you're raised. That said, we became strong by seeing our Mothers weakness as an example.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I don't like the word, 'weak'. I don't think it's correct either. I prefer to use the term 'vulnerable' as that tends to be far more appropriate - they are vulnerable for all mannner of reasons, depending on the circumstances.

Still the pits either way and for those affected (partner, children, parents watching on helpless, friends the same).

yeah I agree and I also hate the attitude that some people have that they somehow deserve to be walked all over because they're weaker or more vulnerable

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

well what's your solution then?

we all know there's a million scenarios but what they all boil down to are weak minds and submissive dispositions. Neither myself or my sisters would ever be controlled in a relationship and I can say that for a fact.

Like with most things it all goes back to how you're raised. That said, we became strong by seeing our Mothers weakness as an example.

If I had the solution Zippy, I'd not be sitting faffing about on a Sunday afternoon, making homemade soup and on here.

It's nothing to do with how you are raised. I grew up with a very controlling father, and a mother who was controlled.....(yet ironically, she too was controlling in her own way with me) .... I saw all the signs within the 1st 3 months, yet thought 'I could change him / help him beat it....".

the only person I beat up was myself for not listening to my head (and instinct) rather than my heart. But we all live and learn. It's when you don't learn from your mistakes - that's when you become a fool.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No but life is about choices and unless youre being held captive against your will then you have options. Its up to you to find the strength to get out of a bad relationship. After all, the woman chose him and got herself into it in the first place.

Plus every relationship has two sides. Just as a battered woman can make excuses for not having the strength to leave, the guy also has reasons for being that way too. Truth is, they are usually both bad for each other and bring out the worst. By staying and taking continual abuse you are feeding his troubles. One of them needs to break the cycle and its unlikely to be the one with the upperhand.

This is the same reasoning as saying women who who wear revealing clothes deserve to get raped. People who spend years in these relationships lose any sense of agency or self-worth. Such that surviving without the abuser seems impossible. Breaking up the relationship is not something which benefits both parties either. The abuser needs a partner as source of narcissistic supply in order to regulate their self-esteem where the abused needs to break away from the relationship if they don't want their life to be a misery. It's simply that years of brainwashing will make it seem otherwise and they remain with their partner (possibly for their whole lives) out of cimpulsion. Narcissists cannot survive on their own, because their brittle self-esteem is dependent on the adulation and praise of others. This is why they themselves are sensitive to criticism and cannot 'take what they dish out' so to speak.

There's a grain of truth to what you say that both partners perpetuate the relationship in a vicious cycle. But it's not as simple as co-dependent 'battered wife' being able to leave at any time. The abused stays with their partner out of compulsion, the narcissist chooses to keep the relationship going because they know only too well the state of depression and self-loathing being alone would return them to. This is why it is impossible for two narcissists to form a relationship with eachother.

[Niamh.]

can we stay on topic please?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

This is the same reasoning as saying women who who wear revealing clothes deserve to get raped. People who spend years in these relationships lose any sense of agency or self-worth. Such that surviving without the abuser seems impossible. Breaking up the relationship is not something which benefits both parties either. The abuser needs a partner as source of narcissistic supply in order to regulate their self-esteem where the abused needs to break away from the relationship if they don't want their life to be a misery. It's simply that years of brainwashing will make it seem otherwise and they remain with their partner (possibly for their whole lives) out of cimpulsion. Narcissists cannot survive on their own, because their brittle self-esteem is dependent on the adulation and praise of others. This is why they themselves are sensitive to criticism and cannot 'take what they dish out' so to speak.

There's a grain of truth to what you say that both partners perpetuate the relationship in a vicious cycle. But it's not as simple as co-dependent 'battered wife' being able to leave at any time. The abused stays with their partner out of compulsion, the narcissist chooses to keep the relationship going because they know only too well the state of depression and self-loathing being alone would return them to. This is why it is impossible for two narcissists to form a relationship with eachother.

Someone has an interest in psychology, human behaviours and personality types!!

It is interesting concept but pinning down borderline personality disorders can not only be tricky, they can be deceptive too.

Good post btw.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

can we stay on topic please?

Last line in the original post:

What makes these people tick and why do people put up with it.

How are we off-topic?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Last line in the original post:

What makes these people tick and why do people put up with it.

How are we off-topic?

Stuff has been deleted in between the last post and what niamh said

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Stuff has been deleted in between the last post and what niamh said

Oh okay, disappointed to have missed it now.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Last line in the original post:

What makes these people tick and why do people put up with it.

How are we off-topic?

I think it's more to do with the fact that the posts remaining ARE on topic....other posts that weren't on topic, and have been removed - I think that's what the mods mean.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Zippy

truth is, some women are attracted to controlling men and bad guys generally

then they start complaining when they act bad and controlling!

And adults should take control of their own lives. No its not easy to leave certain relationships..but is it easy to stay? No. So you basically way up which choice is easiest and sadly many women decide to stay in abusive relationships rather than take that leap into the unknown. Well thats their choice. Maybe they should choose better men in the first place.

You speak as if you know adulthood and relationships well. Once you reach adulthood maybe then join this debate.

[hannah.]

reading through this both me and my boyfriend have these traits. he does all the ones up to being happy all their friends like you (to me) and I have a feeling I do the rest. HALP