[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Jords

Its not rape at all, just under age sex.

Yeah if she is 15 and emotionally mature, thats true, but what happens if she is 14 or 12 or even 10? Can a 10 year old consent to sex? They are given sex education at an early age nowadays, do they understand the full potential consequences?

A line has to be drawn legally to give protection to all children and those who are emotionally immature and the current line is 16.

[Jords]

What if the boy is 10 too? And they do it just because they its what all people do?

Obvs if he forces himself on her its rape, but that applies to any age.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yeah if she is 15 and emotionally mature, thats true, but what happens if she is 14 or 12 or even 10? Can a 10 year old consent to sex? They are given sex education at an early age nowadays, do they understand the full potential consequences?

A line has to be drawn legally to give protection to all children and those who are emotionally immature and the current line is 16.

I agree but I do think in cases of statutory rape they need to be taken case by case and the ages of both parties taken into consideration

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Jords

What if the boy is 10 too? And they do it just because they its what all people do?

Obvs if he forces himself on her its rape, but that applies to any age.

Generally if they are both underage and force isnt used a prosecution isnt in the public interest so wont be pursued.

Its handed over to the social services, who in turn will send the parents on parenting courses and attempt to re educate the children involved.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree but I do think in cases of statutory rape they need to be taken case by case and the ages of both parties taken into consideration

In the UK they are taken on an individual case basis, not all are prosecuted. Its not just the age taken into account but the emotional and intellectual maturity of both parties

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Coming from the queen of BS?

what a simplistic little world you live in where everything is discussed and preplanned beforehand and everything everybody says is literal and exactly what it states. A world where women never play mindgames, it seems.

And who let you back anyways?

oic, so women playing mindgames = permission to rape? what are you talking about?

If a women that says no but means yes has sex with a guy that doesn't stop, then why would she claim rape afterwards?? You make no sense.

Obviously if a woman reports the rape after it happens, after she said no, then she meant NO.

If she didn't mean NO then she wouldn't report it.

Men don't seam to understand the power difference betwen men and women, and that a lot of times women mean no, but if the guy doesn't stop right away, she \get's scared, and she fears if she tries to resist he could hurt her or kill her or who knows what.

Men and Women are not equal in stregth and power in this patriarchal society. just because a woman doesn't scream and resist totally doesn't mean it's not rape.

It's like saying if you are being robbed, and you hand over yur wallet to the robber, then you are CONSENTING to the robbery.

[patsylimerick]

Rape is about control, violence and danger. It's got very little - possibly nothing -to do with sexual attraction. I would take 'statutory rape' out of the equation because it IS about sexual attraction. As Niamh said, very much a case by case situation. We have to set the age of consent somewhere and I think 16 is about right. The question about "well what if he's 10 too?" What a ridiculous question. Seriously now. Ten year olds having sex would necessitate some fairly urgent and robust psychological intervention. In relation to the wife saying no and the husband continuing anyway. That's ABSOLUTELY rape. It's very sad that people feel that a woman going to a man's hotel room is a license to commit violence. Very sad indeed. In many cases the woman does want sex. Fair dues. But if she doesn't and she says NO it's still rape. Oh, and Zippy, any husband who menacingly forces himself on the person he's supposed to love while no-one else is watching is a very real danger to society by any reckoning.

[Mystic Mock]

Rape is Rape,I dont see how some are worse than others personally as all of the rapists are just as sick as each other.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Rape is Rape,I dont see how some are worse than others personally as all of the rapists are just as sick as each other.

obviously rape is rape but of course some are worse than others just like some murders are worse than others, some are more violent or more prolonged which is worse for the victim then a less violent or more prolonged one.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Rape is Rape,I dont see how some are worse than others personally as all of the rapists are just as sick as each other.

Really?

Which would you prefer, to be bought a few drinks at a club, drugged and taken up the harris while unconscious, or to be held down beaten sensless then bum *******ed come round in pain and maybe gangraped again while still in agony?

[Patrick]

Some is worse than others, obviously.

I mean being dragged into a bush after a night out and ******ed and punched a couple of times is nothing compared to being dragged into a van, ******ed and having a knife shoved up you and then left in a forest.


And that's not me trying to be funny, that did happen to someone a few years ago.

I can't remember if it was on the news or in a Soap but it happened so I'm just saying.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Some is worse than others, obviously.

I mean being dragged into a bush after a night out and ******ed and punched a couple of times is nothing compared to being dragged into a van, ******ed and having a knife shoved up you and then left in a forest.


And that's not me trying to be funny, that did happen to someone a few years ago.

I can't remember if it was on the news or in a Soap but it happened so I'm just saying.

Patrick...if you are remembering it from a Soap - soaps are not real - and to equate the 'story' as you have then thinking it might have come from a Soap, beggars belief and makes a mockery of those who are treating this thread seriously.

The first line in your post however, I agree with - the manner of the rape, how it happened, the actions before / after / how it took place / the behaviour of the rapist etc - are all different.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Rape is Rape,I dont see how some are worse than others personally as all of the rapists are just as sick as each other.

I'm flabbergasted.

Scenario 1: 2 adults. Both sexually active. They are in early throes of dating - 2nd time she has met up with him. she invites him over to her place for dinner - they have a wee snog, get into light petting session but he wants more. She says no, and she makes it clear she means No, she realises this guy isn't who she thought he was, wasn't Mr Nice Guy. He refuses to stop, he forces himself on her, then leaves. They never see each other again.

Scenario 2: Sexually active 20 year old man. Babyitting for friends 12 year old daughter who is neither sexually active or even past puberty. She's asleep in bed, he goes up to check on her - and before you know it, he's forced himself on her, told her he will kill her mummy and daddy and her pet puppy that she adores,if she tells them. This guy to be arund the family as he and the father are best mates. The child has to be in this mans company often - is terrified but wont say antying through fear of mummy, daddy and her puppy being killed.

You seriously telling me there that in both of these situations that 'rape is rape'. Who do you think is likely to be more psychologically damaged through this....which rapist do you think is the 'sicker' one.?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Rape is Rape,I dont see how some are worse than others personally as all of the rapists are just as sick as each other.

I go with you most of the way, rape is rape and there may be less of it if the law said that. Those who commit with whatever varying degrees of force still remove at a stroke the dignity, rights and free will of the person they rape.
The offence is rape and the penalties should be massive for it.

I would remove this 'it wasn't a violent rape argument from the courts', if violence that left injury etc was evident then I would add loads more charges.Assault,battery etc and get the creeps sentenced to a great deal longer on seperate charges all to run after conviction after the original rape charge sentencing.I would though still have a strong,longer minimum sentence (always custodial) for the rape conviction itself,even before the other charges are dealt with.

Obviously if the rape resulted in loss of life then the charge is murder and that should carry a whole life term.

I would only accept in rape any credit for if it was impulsive or pre-meditated to rape someone but its still rape and once someone has done it they 'may' be more likely to do so again.
Everyone has the right to say who they have sex with,once that right is removed by another the charge shouldn't be played with,that constitutes rape.

Also because it's such a serious charge,I would also really come down really heavy on people who make false accusations of rape,they do great harm to the genuine cases and should be dealt with equally with extreme penalties for doing so.

[InOne]

I think it's bad, if a guy meets a girl at a club and she looks of age and ends up being 15 or something, and say she turns nasty and he get's charged that he is left with that label forever. Nobody seems to feel for a guy in that situation, they assume a poor little girl that was taken by a monster or something

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

I think it's bad, if a guy meets a girl at a club and she looks of age and ends up being 15 or something, and say she turns nasty and he get's charged that he is left with that label forever. Nobody seems to feel for a guy in that situation, they assume a poor little girl that was taken by a monster or something

I think you're wrong there, I do think people sympathise with guys who fall into that category.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think you're wrong there, I do think people sympathise with guys who fall into that category.

Not really, I've hardly heard of it. A woman can easily turn on a waterworks and make up a whole scenario.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

I think it's bad, if a guy meets a girl at a club and she looks of age and ends up being 15 or something, and say she turns nasty and he get's charged that he is left with that label forever. Nobody seems to feel for a guy in that situation, they assume a poor little girl that was taken by a monster or something

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think you're wrong there, I do think people sympathise with guys who fall into that category.

I have to agree with Niamh on this one. Given that the female has deliberately gone to a place that has an age retriction beyond her years - she's gone out to deceive in the first instance - then agrees to sleep with the guy - gets caught (as has happened in real life), then she shouts rape.... therefore I totally accept that in most cases, sympathy would lie with the male in such circumstances. Anyone who didn't, would have to have a heart of stone.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I have to agree with Niamh on this one. Given that the female has deliberately gone to a place that has an age retriction beyond her years - she's gone out to deceive in the first instance - then agrees to sleep with the guy - gets caught (as has happened in real life), then she shouts rape.... therefore I totally accept that in most cases, sympathy would lie with the male in such circumstances. Anyone who didn't, would have to have a heart of stone.

I just think women are a lot better at emotionally manipulating than men.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by InOne

I think it's bad, if a guy meets a girl at a club and she looks of age and ends up being 15 or something, and say she turns nasty and he get's charged that he is left with that label forever. Nobody seems to feel for a guy in that situation, they assume a poor little girl that was taken by a monster or something

That's a good argument InOne,really a 15 year old girl shouldn't be at a club anyway, I think a lot of things should come up in that scenario before charge.

Deeper investigation as was it really a rape or something that went wrong,as you say if he is told by her she is older,then he is not at fault for having sex with her,more interviews and better investigative procedures hopefully could bring more light on such a charge.

Why was she in a club at all, why did she go anywhere with him, did her parents know she was at a club,was she in contact with her parents or family,she must have said she was older to be in the club,so why the deceit.
That sort of reasoning could and should cast doubts on whether this is a legitimate rape case or not.

Maybe,if a much stronger penalty was in place for falsely accusing someone of rape,people may be less likely to cry rape when it wasn't so.

I agree, that's an awful situation for the hypothetical guy you mention to be in and scarred for life and equally that is why rape investigations, charges etc need to be even more investgative than they are now.
I also don't agree with a guys name plastered al over the media before his trial or conviction either, while the accuser remains anonymous,often even after the not guilty verdict is made.
Both should not be named until after the trial.If the guy was guilty he is named, if he's found not guilty they both are.To show he was falsely accused and she was as low as you can go.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

I just think women are a lot better at emotionally manipulating than men.

You make us out to be hard, calculating bitches though. I mean, I know it happens Joe but really, I don't think it happens as often as you're making out. Most girls/women are just normal and wouldn't dream of accusing someone of rape for no good reason.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That's a good argument InOne,really a 15 year old girl shouldn't be at a club anyway, I think a lot of things should come up in that scenario before charge.

Deeper investigation as was it really a rape or something that went wrong,as you say if he is told by her she is older,then he is not at fault for having sex with her,more interviews and better investigative procedures hopefully could bring more light on such a charge.

Why was she in a club at all, why did she go anywhere with him, did her parents know she was at a club,was she in contact with her parents or family,she must have said she was older to be in the club,so why the deceit.
That sort of reasoning could and should cast doubts on whether this is a legitimate rape case or not.

Maybe,if a much stronger penalty was in place for falsely accusing someone of rape,people may be less likely to cry rape when it wasn't so.

I agree, that's an awful situation for the hypothetical guy you mention to be in and scarred for life and equally that is what rape investigations, charges etc need to be even more investgative than they are now.
I also don't agree with a guys name plastered al over the media before his trail or conviction either, while the accuser remains anonymous,often even after the not guilty verdict is made.
Both should not be named until after the trial.If the guy was guilty he is named, if he's found not guilty they both are.

BIB. 100% agree.

I had a friend (male) who was charged with rape. It didn't happen - he was engaged, with wedding date planned. A female neighbour - they had been friends since kids - she had a complete obsession with the guy. Long story short - he got duped into going round to her house on the pretext that there was something wrong with the cooker (her parents were on holiday) - he goes rund to help - she then going into hysterical mode saying she loved him, started grabbing him, clinging onto him sobbing - after a struggle, he gets free and bails out 2 hours later... the police arrest him (yes...arrest him) for rape.

It took months for it all for the truth to come out - she eventually 'cracked', confessed all and all charges were dropped.

In the meantime: this guy had his name plastered all over the local news, lost his job. In the meantime: her name was never printed (though everyone close, knew) He was one of these guys that you KNEW was telling he truth - his fiance, family and friends stuck by him and it all ended the right way - thanks to the police.

Took years for the 'gossip' to die down.

Worst part was: he was one of the kindest, quietest most caring guys around: and it took him years to get back to his old self again.

All through a jealous, mentally unstable 19 year old and her fantasy world.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You make us out to be hard, calculating bitches though. I mean, I know it happens Joe but really, I don't think it happens as often as you're making out. Most girls/women are just normal and wouldn't dream of accusing someone of rape for no good reason.

I always agree with you Niamh, as you say you know it happens,I think most who do accuse falsely for whatever reason,do eventually before charge or trial say they were wrong.

Sometimes though the damage is done then, once the Police start investigating a rape charge,they really usually go at it,the guy has to explain what is going on and he could lose his job and find hostility from others too until the accuser admits they were wrong.

I think very few do falsely accuse someone of rape but sadly one is even too many and I would throw every book imagineable at them for doing so.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

I just think women are a lot better at emotionally manipulating than men.

for every manipulating woman InOne, believe me, there's equally a manipulating man to balance the figures out.

Take it from one femae speaking from experience of meeting enough of them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I always agree with you Niamh, as you say you know it happens,I think most who do accuse falsely for whatever reason,do eventually before charge or trial say they were wrong.

Sometimes though the damage is done then, once the Police start investigating a rape charge,they really usually go at it,the guy has to explain what is going on and he could lose his job and find hostility from others too until the accuser admits they were wrong.

I think very few do falsely accuse someone of rape but sadly one is even too many and I would throw every book imagineable at them for doing so.

Oh yeah absolutely, It's an awful thing to do to anyone and their life can be destroyed because of it but on the flip side I would imagine that there are a hell of lot more cases where a girl is actually raped but loses the case because it boils down to her word against his and can't prove it. And many more cases again where it's not even reported to the police because the girl is too afraid or embarrassed by it.