[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

It 'seems' that if I had quoted something similar from say a broadsheet, you would hold it in higher regard? Given your comments about the DM, (which was very relative in my opening post) and what appears to be disdain on your part for such a source of information, I'm really at a loss then why you would have entered the thread in the first instance - seeing as you feel the DM's articles are rarely based on fact. sorry but it does seem a little at odds... you are happy to comment on something you feel to be trashy snippet, not based on any fact?

Not withstanding that : may I ask: do you feel someone with Mr Owen's history: would be a changed person after only 4 years 'rehabilitation'? I'm being very genuine in asking you if you do honestly feel that is possible?

I would hold it in higher regard as broadsheets generally are better written and just more factual then the average tabloid. As for why I entered the thread, I don't see any mention of a tabloid in the topic title so I'm at a loss of what you're actually talking about here and like i said in the post you've quoted I've not commented on the story since I don't know enough about it. I've only talked about the law system and new identities. I'm not quite sure why you are trying to discredit me by trying to put words in my mouth when you've got my post quoted for everyone to see.

I believe prison can potentially change anyone, those four years will drag painfully for someone like him who will undoubtedly suffer at the hands of other inmates. A hellish experience can change your outlook on things. One of the cornerstones of our Law System is that with most sentences we give people the chance to change eventually, whether they receive any help should depend on their willingness to become a better person. If we let go of the hope that people can be better then we might as well lock up everyone who's done wrong for life which wouldn't work either. The system isn't perfect but it's a lot better then most suggestions I tend to here.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I would hold it in higher regard as broadsheets generally are better written and just more factual then the average tabloid. As for why I entered the thread, I don't see any mention of a tabloid in the topic title so I'm at a loss of what you're actually talking about here and like i said in the post you've quoted I've not commented on the story since I don't know enough about it. I've only talked about the law system and new identities. I'm not quite sure why you are trying to discredit me by trying to put words in my mouth when you've got my post quoted for everyone to see.

I believe prison can potentially change anyone, those four years will drag painfully for someone like him who will undoubtedly suffer at the hands of other inmates. A hellish experience can change your outlook on things. One of the cornerstones of our Law System is that with most sentences we give people the chance to change eventually, whether they receive any help should depend on their willingness to become a better person. If we let go of the hope that people can be better then we might as well lock up everyone who's done wrong for life which wouldn't work either. The system isn't perfect but it's a lot better then most suggestions I tend to here.

.

My opening post.....gives links to the source. Aside which, you must have read either that or subsequent posts - because you yourself referred to

typical hysterical Daily Mail image that, like the newspaper itself, is rarely based on fact

.... I am not trying to discredit you Dezzy - but to pretend that you didn't realise there was any reference to the DM link - because I didn't quote it in the thread title, seem a bit of a moot point

I can possibly understand your thoughts that Owen would have suffered in prison - but that isn't altogether a certaintly - especially as such prisoners tend to be isolated - for their own safety. I perhaps wish I had the faith that you have, that 4 years would turn this man around. Regrettably, I personally don't have that same belief.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

My opening post.....gives links to the source. Aside which, you must have read either that or subsequent posts - because you yourself referred to .... I am not trying to discredit you Dezzy - but to pretend that you didn't realise there was any reference to the DM link - because I didn't quote it in the thread title, seem a bit of a moot point

I can possibly understand your thoughts that Owen would have suffered in prison - but that isn't altogether a certaintly - especially as such prisoners tend to be isolated - for their own safety. I perhaps wish I had the faith that you have, that 4 years would turn this man around. Regrettably, I personally don't have that same belief.

You asked why I came into this thread if the article was from a tabloid, well I couldn't exactly decipher that from the thread title when I clicked on it and my first post was a response to Livia's rather then the OP. i've not commentated on the actual story directly and the stuff about the Daily Mail was OBVIOUSLY a general example, one I often mention in these discussions.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You asked why I came into this thread if the article was from a tabloid, well I couldn't exactly decipher that from the thread title when I clicked on it and my first post was a response to Livia's rather then the OP. i've not commentated on the actual story directly and the stuff about the Daily Mail was OBVIOUSLY a general example, one I often mention in these discussions.

Fair comment. Seems very odd to enter a thread yet know nothing about what it is discussing, nor taking into account anything that has been said in relation to the very article in question that started the topic off, but opt to select one random post to address without being aware of the discussion on the thread. But hey, each to their own, live and let live as they say.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Fair comment. Seems very odd to enter a thread yet know nothing about what it is discussing, nor taking into account anything that has been said in relation to the very article in question that started the topic off, but opt to select one random post to address without being aware of the discussion on the thread. But hey, each to their own, live and let live as they say.

You're being pedantic, I knew the story but not the concrete facts and i repled to the post that intrigued me the most.

I'm actually stunned I have to explain this to be honest. It's kinda common sense.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

.... i said in the post you've quoted I've not commented on the story since I don't know enough about it. I've only talked about the law system and new identities. I'm not quite sure why you are trying to discredit me by trying to put words in my mouth when you've got my post quoted for everyone to see.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're being pedantic, I knew the story but not the concrete facts and i repled to the post that intrigued me the most.

I'm actually stunned I have to explain this to be honest. It's kinda common sense.

I'm not being pedantic at all - your very own replies are lending themselves to much confusion. I'm unclear why you are 'actually stunned'.

In one post you say you didn't read the article in the daily mail that was provided (because it wasn't clear from the title of the thread), you then make comment about "typical hysterical Daily Mail image that, like the newspaper itself, is rarely based on fact" (despite not reading the article), then you say , "I didn't comment on the story as I didn't know enough about it", and now you say that "You knew the story but not the concrete facts".

No wonder I'm confused! (note: that's a laugh in general at the confusion, not at you specifically)

In all fairness Dezzy - regardless of which newspapers stories are printed, tabloids or broadsheets - not all of them do offer up the concrete facts - especially in cases such as this - as very few of them are privy to the concrete facts.

Let's both agree to disagree on what you knew about the story or not - Regardless of where the information / article came from. The topic for discussion that was contained in the article was in respect of this particular man, Jason Owen being allowed the possiblity of being given a New ID, given the sickening crimes he committed.

Back to the thrust of the thread. your post below

Originally Posted by Dezzy
where does this idea come from that he'd be given some sort of luxurious come from? He'd be given a dive to live in and a dead end job that he'd have to keep up due to the agreements he'd make upon getting a new identity. He'd be under severe restrictions and he'd always be watched. He's not gonna get some executive position and a penthouse to live in at the expense of the taxpayer.

and my reply....

Who said anything about some sort of 'luxurious'? Who inferred he was going to be given any executive position or penthouse. Not one person as far as I can see. If ever I saw an example of trying to throw a curve ball ...this really has to be it.

There are many homeless people who are far more deserving of being given a home. There are many people on the dole who are far more willing to work and simply cannot get a job - who deserve to be immediately placed in employement than scumbags like this man.

Why should low life like this be allowed such things when other more deserved in society, who may have committed no crime at all, far less an henious crime such as this man committed, be overlooked in favour of a child abuser and paedophile?

Do you honestly think a man such as Owen who has such background, such history (men like them at all - ie: Jon Venables) - should have more rights over those who may not have committed any crime, far less anything on the scale of Owen - that they should be afforded the same right to automatic housing, being given a job without question etc? You agree that someone like him, capable of inflicting such horrendous torture on an innocent child, should be given these priviledges all paid for out of the public purse?