[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Obviously I have replied to several posts in this thread as is flaming obvious. But Im not responding to something youve copy/pasted from elsewhere out of pure laziness. Theyre not even your words so why you think I need to reply to them Im not quite sure. You're not debating by stealing other peoples words.

And the example I gave of a donation was a specific one which was clearly done as part of promoting their tour and Live8. It was correcting a big untruth that was posted. Lets stick to facts here.

I have addressed both the tax issues and his charitable donations. You need to wake up and realise that they are actually very interlinked; charity begins at home and the millions that he is denying the Irish goverment could be spent on new schools, new parks, new roads etc etc Ireland is not a rich country and he should be proud to pay his due taxes...if he's the caring saint he parades himself as. If if if...

Obviously you still fail to see the blatant contradictions in how he conducts himself so Im not gonna waste too much time on you.

Besides all that, he should bloody stick to his job. Nobody elected him to be a politician and he really has no place next to elected world leaders. He's just an absolute egomaniac. Because being a huge rockstar isnt enough, right?

Bottom line; he talks the talk but doesnt walk the walk. Nobody needs to hear some megarich tax evader preaching about poverty or charity. NOBODY.

It's funny, really, because I don't do gifs, or whatever they're called, I'm not well versed on linking etc. I almost entirely depend on my own words on here. But if you want to fling that as a criticism, fair enough, point taken. I would just ask politely that you reflect on the fact that all of our opinions and views are shaped by the sum of our experiences and what we have read, or more pertinently, not read, shapes us as human beings. We are none of us origiinal. We are the sum of our genes, influences and experiences. So we can twist it and turn it and pound seven shades of shoite out of it to make it our own. But I, personally, have no problem in acknowledging a situation where someone else's words are worthy of applause and repitition. It's not something I do often, but if it's worth quoting, I see no shame in doin so.

But getting back to the subject of the thread, the one thing that unites us all is that we are all going to shuffle off this mortal coil and the very most we can hope for is 80 vital years. I admire anyone who takes a chunk of those years and devotes them to increasing knowledge, awareness or a sense of community. Through his music, Bono has done all three. Through his charity work, Bono has attempted to do all three. If he hasn't succeeded because some people feel that a positive and laudable message cannot be accepted without dissecting the messenger, so be it. I don't think much can be served by my defense of him; but I'll defend him anyway. Because I'd accept mountains of pomposity and vast oceans of illusions of grandeur if the payback was an increased awareness of and discomfiture at the things that divide us.

But that's just me. And your opinion is as valid as mine. The problem is that mine is also as valid as yours.

[Niamh.]

Well, You actually changed my opinion on Bono Patsy I have to say but to be fair, apparently, he's had multiple affairs throughout his marriage but she decided to accept them :/ which is worse imo

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, You actually changed my opinion on Bono Patsy I have to say but to be fair, apparently, he's had multiple affairs throughout his marriage but she decided to accept them :/ which is worse imo

Niamh, sorry, I meant earlier to say thanks. I hope that's not true, but if it is, I still think (hope) that my arguments stand. I mean, I'm not perfect - who is? We've all done absolutely stupid and unpleasant things to other people in our lives, to varying degrees of awfulness, but it doesn't and shouldn't negate the worth anything that we have done, could do or might do that's brilliant, inspired and worthwhile. If the negatives are awful, the positives don't count. Anyone who in any way harms a child, murders or rapes is beyond redemption. But beyond that, shouldn't we argue that you take the bad with the good and applaud anyone who makes us think or act in a better way? I think we should.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Niamh, sorry, I meant earlier to say thanks. I hope that's not true, but if it is, I still think (hope) that my arguments stand. I mean, I'm not perfect - who is? We've all done absolutely stupid and unpleasant things to other people in our lives, to varying degrees of awfulness, but it doesn't and shouldn't negate the worth anything that we have done, could do or might do that's brilliant, inspired and worthwhile. If the negatives are awful, the positives don't count. Anyone who in any way harms a child, murders or rapes is beyond redemption. But beyond that, shouldn't we argue that you take the bad with the good and applaud anyone who makes us think or act in a better way? I think we should.

No, you're right and I actually felt a bit ****ty after I read you're post. He's a celebrity and tbf most of them do sweet f all for society, Bono does alot of good and yeah, he should get credit for that.

[lostalex]

Bono is a good person. He's saved millions of lives.

How many lives have you saved?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No, you're right and I actually felt a bit ****ty after I read you're post. He's a celebrity and tbf most of them do sweet f all for society, Bono does alot of good and yeah, he should get credit for that.

Patsylimerick and Livia altered my thinking back too Niamh. My first feeling was he wasn't a hypocrite,I should have stuck with that.

[MTVN]

Security men ended up taking down the protest baloon http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13913831

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Bono is a good person. He's saved millions of lives.

How many lives have you saved?

I suggest he has been part of a movement that has killed millions of people. Especially the poorest in third world countries.
And contributed to a lot of human suffering and poverty among those same peoples.

I wouldn't mind so much if you could have a reasonable discussion, but you can't.

I have no doubt that we are unable to have a reasonable discussion and that, to you, in your mind, you are convinced it seems 'unreasonable'.
No doubt whatsoever.

I feel that you purposefully choose my posts to ridicule and I'm asking you to stop.

No you don't. You don't feel that way. You wrote that for the purpose of building a 'story' or 'case' which you will hope will eventually get me banned from TiBB.

Instead of building a fake case to manipulate censorship why don't you use the block function as you promised.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I suggest he has been part of a movement that has killed millions of people. Especially the poorest in third world countries.
And contributed to a lot of human suffering and poverty among those same peoples.

I have no doubt that we are unable to have a reasonable discussion and that, to you, in your mind, you are convinced it seems 'unreasonable'.
No doubt whatsoever.




No you don't. You don't feel that way. You wrote that for the purpose of building a 'story' or 'case' which you will hope will eventually get me banned from TiBB.

Instead of building a fake case to manipulate censorship why don't you use the block function as you promised.

With respect, that must be the singularly most nonsensical sentence I've ever read on here. Would you care to explain how?

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

With respect, that must be the singularly most nonsensical sentence I've ever read on here. Would you care to explain how?

Yes. Well actually Lord Monckton can explain how the Global Warming Scare and its 'solutions' as frequently promoted by Bono ultimately starve millions to death on this planet:

Youtube video

Of course, there is more details to be found. Films like 'not evil just wrong' and some others have documented just how exactly the Global Warming Swindle keeps the poorest people on Earth in poverty.

You bet - Bono has done a great deal to promote a false movement that ultimately killed a helluva lot of poor people. Starvation.. a horrific way to die as well.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Yes. Well actually Lord Monckton can explain how the Global Warming Scare and its 'solutions' as frequently promoted by Bono ultimately starve millions to death on this planet:

Youtube video

Of course, there is more details to be found. Films like 'not evil just wrong' and some others have documented just how exactly the Global Warming Swindle keeps the poorest people on Earth in poverty.

You bet - Bono has done a great deal to promote a false movement that ultimately killed a helluva lot of poor people. Starvation.. a horrific way to die as well.

Christopher Monckton is relatively bearable - compared to some of the absolute nut-job cospiracy theorists he associates with. His credibility was pretty much shot, however, when he sank to likening his political opponents to Hitler. I've a very open mind on the global warming debate; I don't necessarily think the human contribution to emissions is as significant as some global warming doomsayers contend. However, it is certainly true that we need to think more about the rate at which we are running out of traditional fuel options and examine the alternatives available to us - alternatives which would at least improve our living environment in terms of air, water and soil pollution. I would like to see a much greater debate on the issue. There is an unhealthy aversion to questioning the received wisdom of the loudest representatives of the scientific community.

The funny thing is, Bono advocates debate and discussion. He's forever encouraging people to arm themselves with information and to make informed decisions.

Most importantly, however, while Bono has spoken about global warming, his platform is tackling global poverty; rooting out governmental corruption and tackling our insane systems of global money lending. That saves lives - it doesn't cost them - and potentially millions of them.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

His credibility was pretty much shot, however, when he sank to likening his political opponents to Hitler.

No. His credibility stayed the same but he did earn more respect for simple accurate reporting.

Most importantly, however, while Bono has spoken about global warming, his platform is tackling global poverty; rooting out governmental corruption and tackling our insane systems of global money lending. That saves lives - it doesn't cost them - and potentially millions of them.

Bono isn't in any kind of elected position or in any place of expertise to be 'telling anyone' anything or to be 'speaking out' about things like he is 'for poor people' while someone else is 'against poors'.

I can go on television tomorrow and 'tell you' its time to help the poor and say how I'm taking a stand against it.
Then appear places looking concerned and 'damning those who cause this'.

Meanwhile, US and British troops killing Taliban is a very very effective way to eliminate corrupt governments.
(and one would hope this works on Ghaddafi one day).

Meanwhile, drilling mass amounts of oil all over the place is a very very effective way in reducing food prices for the worlds poorest people and getting them air-conditioners, stoves, pure water etc.
We absolutely know this in centuries of demonstrated practice.

And there are already THOUSANDS of organizations sending tens of thousands of workers to Africa in hands-on money-where-your-mouth-is well-digging missions.
Most of these are Christian orgs but plenty are plain 'secular' type groups of some kind.
So who the hell needs Bono to show up like he came up with the idea.
What Bono should do is join one of the many many Roman Catholic orgs in Ireland who have (before Bono) already put in place all kinds of volunteer positions.
I know 16 year old girls who spent 2 months in Africa hand-shoveling wells and swinging hammers for real.
Never saw Mr. Amazing shut the hell up for once and do that. And not for some 1 day self-glorifying documentary.
No... go try and match the teen girl from our Church youth group for 2 months. Then talk.

/medication induced rant

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

No. His credibility stayed the same but he did earn more respect for simple accurate reporting.



Bono isn't in any kind of elected position or in any place of expertise to be 'telling anyone' anything or to be 'speaking out' about things like he is 'for poor people' while someone else is 'against poors'.

I can go on television tomorrow and 'tell you' its time to help the poor and say how I'm taking a stand against it.
Then appear places looking concerned and 'damning those who cause this'.

Meanwhile, US and British troops killing Taliban is a very very effective way to eliminate corrupt governments.
(and one would hope this works on Ghaddafi one day).

Meanwhile, drilling mass amounts of oil all over the place is a very very effective way in reducing food prices for the worlds poorest people and getting them air-conditioners, stoves, pure water etc.
We absolutely know this in centuries of demonstrated practice.

And there are already THOUSANDS of organizations sending tens of thousands of workers to Africa in hands-on money-where-your-mouth-is well-digging missions.
Most of these are Christian orgs but plenty are plain 'secular' type groups of some kind.
So who the hell needs Bono to show up like he came up with the idea.
What Bono should do is join one of the many many Roman Catholic orgs in Ireland who have (before Bono) already put in place all kinds of volunteer positions.
I know 16 year old girls who spent 2 months in Africa hand-shoveling wells and swinging hammers for real.
Never saw Mr. Amazing shut the hell up for once and do that. And not for some 1 day self-glorifying documentary.
No... go try and match the teen girl from our Church youth group for 2 months. Then talk.

/medication induced rant

Point being Bono has a platform from which to rant and people listen, Amnesty receive huge boosts both in interest and donations every time he takes up for one of their causes, Live Aid and Live 8 received huge boosts because of his gobbing off. Could rattle off a whole list of other causes he has publicised.

While he isnt in an "elected" position it could be argued he is one voice for ordinary people and he has been doing the socio political ranting for a long time, people do follow the causes he promotes. And the band he fronts still packs them in.

Would him giving up his time to assist in the digging of a well have reduced thrid world debt as much as him button holing world leaders like Gordon Brown to "drop the debt"? Or giving out a text number at every single concert on the Vertigo tour for people to support the campaign to drop Third World debts?

He uses what he has (fame and a wide audience), effectively for the betterment of others. Could he do more? Yeah he probably could, so could we all.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

No. His credibility stayed the same but he did earn more respect for simple accurate reporting.



Bono isn't in any kind of elected position or in any place of expertise to be 'telling anyone' anything or to be 'speaking out' about things like he is 'for poor people' while someone else is 'against poors'.

I can go on television tomorrow and 'tell you' its time to help the poor and say how I'm taking a stand against it.
Then appear places looking concerned and 'damning those who cause this'.

Meanwhile, US and British troops killing Taliban is a very very effective way to eliminate corrupt governments.
(and one would hope this works on Ghaddafi one day).

Meanwhile, drilling mass amounts of oil all over the place is a very very effective way in reducing food prices for the worlds poorest people and getting them air-conditioners, stoves, pure water etc.
We absolutely know this in centuries of demonstrated practice.

And there are already THOUSANDS of organizations sending tens of thousands of workers to Africa in hands-on money-where-your-mouth-is well-digging missions.
Most of these are Christian orgs but plenty are plain 'secular' type groups of some kind.
So who the hell needs Bono to show up like he came up with the idea.
What Bono should do is join one of the many many Roman Catholic orgs in Ireland who have (before Bono) already put in place all kinds of volunteer positions.
I know 16 year old girls who spent 2 months in Africa hand-shoveling wells and swinging hammers for real.
Never saw Mr. Amazing shut the hell up for once and do that. And not for some 1 day self-glorifying documentary.
No... go try and match the teen girl from our Church youth group for 2 months. Then talk.

/medication induced rant

Bit in bold...................... It's not working very well at the moment, is it? Or have I missed something and are they no longer hungry and dying?

Oh, and what happens when it runs out?

Very, very many young Irish catholics travel abroad to do charity work, or stay at home to do it. I'm sure Bono's no different. Thing is, he's kept it up for a hell of a long longer to most. And he is listened to by millions of fans so of course he's a powerful tool in raising awareness.

[karezza]

Pay your taxes you tosser!

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Bit in bold...................... It's not working very well at the moment, is it?

It is working well. This is why food is more plentiful around the world.

Or have I missed something and are they no longer hungry and dying?

Yes many are starving and dying in poverty. There are criminal reasons for this but an overall problem is people like Bono using his big platform to influence more and more caps and blocks to drilling and producing mass amounts of cheaper energy.

Oh, and what happens when it runs out?

Food prices will increase and the poorest people will face starvation.

Very, very many young Irish catholics travel abroad to do charity work, or stay at home to do it. I'm sure Bono's no different. Thing is, he's kept it up for a hell of a long longer to most. And he is listened to by millions of fans so of course he's a powerful tool in raising awareness.

Bono doesn't do anything but use his name to promote a movement that is 'saving the Earth' but keeping the poorest human beings poor and in need.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Bono isn't in any kind of elected position or in any place of expertise to be 'telling anyone' anything or to be 'speaking out' about things like he is 'for poor people' while someone else is 'against poors'.

I can go on television tomorrow and 'tell you' its time to help the poor and say how I'm taking a stand against it. Then appear places looking concerned and 'damning those who cause this'....

Quite. Its obvious he's driven to do it for his own ego. Self appointed saint Bono.

Originally Posted by karezza

Pay your taxes you tosser!

Exactly. Saint Bono who avoids paying millions in taxes. Not so saintly after all.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Quite. Its obvious he's driven to do it for his own ego. Self appointed saint Bono.



Exactly. Saint Bono who avoids paying millions in taxes. Not so saintly after all.

It doesn't really matter if he's doing it to try and develop a wart on his knob. HE'S DOING IT.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

It doesn't really matter if he's doing it to try and develop a wart on his knob. HE'S DOING IT.

There are millions of people worldwide slogging their asses off day in, day out for the good of others. Missionaries et al. Theyre the true saints DOING IT for no self interest whatsoever. And they don't have a pot to piss in.

Save your praise for those not some mega rich popstar.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Their are millions of people worldwide slogging their asses off day in, day out for the good of others. Missionaries et al. Theyre the true saints DOING IT for no self interest whatsoever. And they don't have a pot to piss in.

Save your praise for those not some mega rich popstar.

No they are not doing it "for no self interest whatsoever". Everyone has an ego. Everyone gains as they give; that's how we're programmed and thank God it is. Self-interest is a vital component of being human. It's a matter of scale. And Bono happens to be at the other end of the scale in terms of fame - and in terms of criticism; and even arguably in terms of ego. So what? Everything's relative. He does more than his fair share and he's a lazy, easy target for criticism the progeny of which completely baffles me.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

No they are not doing it "for no self interest whatsoever". Everyone has an ego. Everyone gains as they give; that's how we're programmed and thank God it is. Self-interest is a vital component of being human. It's a matter of scale. And Bono happens to be at the other end of the scale in terms of fame - and in terms of criticism; and even arguably in terms of ego. So what? Everything's relative. He does more than his fair share and he's a lazy, easy target for criticism the progeny of which completely baffles me.

He gets far more than his fair share of payback just for making a few speeches. Lording it up with world leaders, receiving peace awards, revelling in the saintly glow that his fans bestow on him....yeah, thats quite some reward for making a few very obvious speeches. Because saying that rich goverments should not be feeding off dirt poor countries is a mindblowing revelation, right?

Meanwhile, you might care to address the fact he avoids paying much needed taxes. Which is, after all, at the core of this issue.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

He gets far more than his fair share of payback just for making a few speeches. Lording it up with world leaders, receiving peace awards, revelling in the saintly glow that his fans bestow on him....yeah, thats quite some reward for making a few very obvious speeches. Because saying that rich goverments should not be feeding off dirt poor countries is a mindblowing revelation, right?

Meanwhile, you might care to address the fact he avoids paying much needed taxes. Which is, after all, at the core of this issue.

I have done. Several times, if you read back, I've said what he's doing with his personal finances is less than commendable. I think he should pay his tax in Ireland. People are complex. There is no black and white. Look, if you're not going to read what I'm saying, it's not really worth the effort.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

I've said what he's doing with his personal finances is less than commendable. I think he should pay his tax in Ireland. People are complex. There is no black and white.

Complex? what's so complex about not wanting to give back to your very own people?

It's a very simple morality. And his morality is inconsistent. Probably because simply paying his due taxes doesn't get him praise and glory.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Complex? what's so complex about not wanting to give back to your very own people?

It's a very simple morality. And his morality is inconsistent. Probably because simply paying his due taxes doesn't get him praise and glory.

So is most people's, you'll find. If it's even possible to define consistency in morality, as morality is purely subjective.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

So is most people's, you'll find. If it's even possible to define consistency in morality, as morality is purely subjective.

I find his contradictions glaringly obvious. And unjustifiable. Though, bless, you will keep trying.