[CharlieO]

I go to a private school and my School in England previously and in future is/was a private school. I don't think I am stuck up in anyway and I don't look down on anyone who goes to a free school.
I don't see anything wrong with having other opportunities available. If parents can afford a school that needs to be paid for and can give the child better opportunities in the future I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to harness that.

I agree with the scholarship points though.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by CharlieO

I go to a private school and my School in England previously and in future is/was a private school. I don't think I am stuck up in anyway and I don't look down on anyone who goes to a free school.
I don't see anything wrong with having other opportunities available. If parents can afford a school that needs to be paid for and can give the child better opportunities in the future I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to harness that.

I agree with the scholarship points though.

*goes and reviews my stats* lol.

[InOne]

Yes they should.

If I had the money to send my kids to the best school possible I would. What's the point in not?

[Angus]

It's staggering that so many people still believe you have to be rich to go to private schools. I'm working class and left school at 16 because I had to in order to get a job and start contributing to the family finances. I returned to higher education when I was in my 30s and gained a BSc(Hons), a BA(Hons), a PGCE and several diplomas. My kids grew up appreciating the value of education and they were bright kids who were being held back by the state system which thrives on mediocrity and treating all kids as if they are equal in intellect and ability when in fact we know damn well that's not true.

My eldest went to a private school age 11 on the Assisted Places scheme which Labour lost no time in abolishing in 1997 thereby depriving poor kids of the opportunities those hypocritical labour mps gave their own kids. My youngest then won a scholarship to a prestigious private school so I didn't pay any fees for either of them and they had the most amazing, productive and inspiring education. Contrary to the misinformed opinions on this forum, most private schools offer scholarships and their own assisted places schemes if you can't afford the fees.

Anyway, what on earth is it the business of anyone how others spend their money? Just because I can't afford a mansion, rolls royce, private health care and expensive holidays, does that give me the right to ban these things for others who can afford them?

Communism does NOT work, it just spreads mediocrity around, kills aspiration and motivation, and spawns different types of hierarchy and dictatorships. We are individuals with different talents, abilities and belief systems - there is no "one size fits all", so just live and let live.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by angus58

It's staggering that so many people still believe you have to be rich to go to private schools. I'm working class and left school at 16 because I had to in order to get a job and start contributing to the family finances. I returned to higher education when I was in my 30s and gained a BSc(Hons), a BA(Hons), a PGCE and several diplomas. My kids grew up appreciating the value of education and they were bright kids who were being held back by the state system which thrives on mediocrity and treating all kids as if they are equal in intellect and ability when in fact we know damn well that's not true.

My eldest went to a private school age 11 on the Assisted Places scheme which Labour lost no time in abolishing in 1997 thereby depriving poor kids of the opportunities those hypocritical labour mps gave their own kids. My youngest then won a scholarship to a prestigious private school so I didn't pay any fees for either of them and they had the most amazing, productive and inspiring education. Contrary to the misinformed opinions on this forum, most private schools offer scholarships and their own assisted places schemes if you can't afford the fees.

Anyway, what on earth is it the business of anyone how others spend their money? Just because I can't afford a mansion, rolls royce, private health care and expensive holidays, does that give me the right to ban these things for others who can afford them?

Communism does NOT work, it just spreads mediocrity around, kills aspiration and motivation, and spawns different types of hierarchy and dictatorships. We are individuals with different talents, abilities and belief systems - there is no "one size fits all", so just live and let live.

I think it's less to do with genuine belief that only the rich or well off pay for private education for their children - and more to do with not wanting to accept that it's more than just the 'occasional' working class parent/parents who actually do make that choice, and make sacrifices to do so.

It's the ill-informed judgements and prejudices on this thread that I find more staggering than anything!

The facts speak for themselves on this thread.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Stu

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

I created this thread because at the end of the day I think everyone should have the same level of education. Well except those who have learning difficulties or are disabled in which they get extra help anyway or go to a different special school. I think all schools should have a special needs department because most people are cabable. They just need extra help and encouragement. I actually think some parents are great that they save their money to put their sprogs in private schools. Rather than purchase other goods that are no use really.

I just think in the future the education system should change with no private schools. I know that some rich people or people who have been in private schools will disagree with this. Especially from going to a better education to a distinctly average education. I just think everything is too capitalist and everyone in education should be granted the same opportunities.

I have never said anything about stereotypes. You get knobheads in the public school and private school but you also get all round decent people in both schools too. You get snobbery EVERYWHERE. Reverse snobbery is just as bad as snobbery. Unfortunately I get the blunt of both snobbery and reverse snobbery. Because I am more fortunate than some people.. but some people look down at me in the job I do and they think I should have gone to university or something.

I think with no private schools the public schools will become more better off. If parents want their kids or if the kids themselves want to excel in something then they should have classes outside the national curriculum which should be provided for those who are "gifted".

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

At the point of me posting this comment: 22 members have put up comment.

Out of those 22 members: at least 4 have been educated (full or in part) privately.

That' represents 18.8% - ie: almost a fifth of the members on this thread have received private schooling - without knowing Chuck's background - all others have stated that they do not come from rich / well off /wealthy families.

I happen to be aware of at least 4 other members (and I don't mean those who never post: I mean regular active posters, who have been educated privately and are not 'rolling in it').

Kinda blows the myth that many have on here that private education is only for the elite few and the very rich in our society ......... hard to argue with the figures.

I'm not very rich
My two half-sisters lost their father a long time ago and my parents are separated, so my mum had only herself to provide us with everything we needed and she wanted to give us the best she could possibly give and in order to do so she had to work really really really hard to be able to afford private education for us all and I'm not only talking about private schools but language courses and exchange programs as well.

My sisters and I are not stuck up, we dont look down on anyone who went to public school, we dont live in a bubble nor we feel superior to anyone regardless of their background.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by chuck.pass

I'm not very rich
My two half-sisters lost their father a long time ago and my parents are separated, so my mum had only herself to provide us with everything we needed and she wanted to give us the best she could possibly give and in order to do so she had to work really really really hard to be able to afford private education for us all and I'm not only talking about private schools but language courses and exchange programs as well.

My sisters and I are not stuck up, we dont look down on anyone who went to public school, we dont live in a bubble nor we feel superior to anyone regardless of their background.

No need for the wagging fingers if you're wagging them at me ..... I actually included you in my earlier figures.

[Chuck]

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Beastie

I created this thread because at the end of the day I think everyone should have the same level of education. Well except those who have learning difficulties or are disabled in which they get extra help anyway or go to a different special school. I think all schools should have a special needs department because most people are cabable. They just need extra help and encouragement. I actually think some parents are great that they save their money to put their sprogs in private schools. Rather than purchase other goods that are no use really.

I just think in the future the education system should change with no private schools. I know that some rich people or people who have been in private schools will disagree with this. Especially from going to a better education to a distinctly average education. I just think everything is too capitalist and everyone in education should be granted the same opportunities.

I have never said anything about stereotypes. You get knobheads in the public school and private school but you also get all round decent people in both schools too. You get snobbery EVERYWHERE. Reverse snobbery is just as bad as snobbery. Unfortunately I get the blunt of both snobbery and reverse snobbery. Because I am more fortunate than some people.. but some people look down at me in the job I do and they think I should have gone to university or something.

I think with no private schools the public schools will become more better off. If parents want their kids or if the kids themselves want to excel in something then they should have classes outside the national curriculum which should be provided for those who are "gifted".

Correct you didn't but still they showed up on the thread.

for what it is worth: I have found through very personal experience that many working to middle class 'children' - who go on to attend University - in my own experience from the great many I have met - they come into the workplace on internships / work placements -they are the very ones who look down on others, they are the ones who think they are something, and have the view that they are above even those far more experienced (academically and professionally).

Far more so than any person who has been privately educated during their school years.

Your comment that I've put in red though - confused the issue somewhat for me. Doesn't that invalidate to a degree, your feeling that there should be no private education at all - if on one hand you are 'applauding' parents who do that, but then are saying there shouldn't be different educational systems?

[CharlieO]

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

I hate how people say things like 'if you are lucky enough to have enough money', I know my parents and other peoples parents work extremely hard to be able to afford things so to judge people that have money in a bad light is ridiculous. It's not like every rich person only has money because they won the lottery and then chooses to go rub it in other people's faces. I come from an upper middle class family but do not AT ALL look down on others who are different in monetary terms, and I work hard for the education my parents pay for.

Also if all people were forced to go to public schools all it would do is separate children more. Parents of richer families would have more disposable income as they would be saving money from not paying for education then would be spent on materialistic items, the 'richer' kids would have more expensive things for Christmas as an example then bullying would occur based on what majority the school held. More middle class students then the working class children would be bullied on a monetary basis and visa versa.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Correct you didn't but still they showed up on the thread.

for what it is worth: I have found through very personal experience that many working to middle class 'children' - who go on to attend University - in my own experience from the great many I have met - they come into the workplace on internships / work placements -they are the very ones who look down on others, they are the ones who think they are something, and have the view that they are above even those far more experienced (academically and professionally).

Far more so than any person who has been privately educated during their school years.

Your comment that I've put in red though - confused the issue somewhat for me. Doesn't that invalidate to a degree, your feeling that there should be no private education at all - if on one hand you are 'applauding' parents who do that, but then are saying there shouldn't be different educational systems?

There should be a different educational system in the future. I am just applauding parents of what is happening now.

However I applaud parents more who actually give a damn about their children. Not the ones who just dump them at private schools AND public schools but who actually take time with them outside of school like reading them a story.. etc..

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by CharlieO

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

.

I know

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Beastie

There should be a different educational system in the future. I am just applauding parents of what is happening now.

However I applaud parents more who actually give a damn about their children. Not the ones who just dump them at private schools AND public schools but who actually take time with them outside of school like reading them a story.. etc..

Mmm.... only my personal viewpoint: but I think that's entering a whole different territory and whole different debate.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by CharlieO

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

I hate how people say things like 'if you are lucky enough to have enough money', I know my parents and other peoples parents work extremely hard to be able to afford things so to judge people that have money in a bad light is ridiculous. It's not like every rich person only has money because they won the lottery and then chooses to go rub it in other people's faces. I come from an upper middle class family but do not AT ALL look down on others who are different in monetary terms, and I work hard for the education my parents pay for.

Also if all people were forced to go to public schools all it would do is separate children more. Parents of richer families would have more disposable income as they would be saving money from not paying for education then would be spent on materialistic items, the 'richer' kids would have more expensive things for Christmas as an example then bullying would occur based on what majority the school held. More middle class students then the working class children would be bullied on a monetary basis and visa versa.

So true. Funnily enough: the ones who appear to be moaning, and being very prejudiced, are the very ones who are actually benefitting from hard working parents such as 'ours', who not only area paying into the public coffers to fund such state schooling, to allow them to study for 'free'....... even though those same parents are not putting any strain on that same State system, by opting to use their hard earned money toward private education.

Strange that eh.....

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Stu

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

Originally Posted by CharlieO

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

Noone's said anything like that, this isn't about hating someone or being jealous of them because they're rich, it's about not wanting to encourage inherent privilege & social immoblity built into the educational system.

Look at the evidence: private school kids are 4x more likely to get straight A's at A-level, 3x more likely to go to university and most of the top end high payedjobs like Lawyers & Politicians are dominated by those from private schools. This is the point: private schools all but ensure a life of privilege over those not lucky enough to go to one. As Pyramid has rightly pointed out, working class families can and do attend private schools but that doesn't mean they're quite easily accessible to all sectors of the population.

Of course noone blames parents who do have the money for sending their kids to private schools because most of the time they are better but that isnt the point here & any objection to private schooling shouldnt be simplified down to a dislike of rich people.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

So true. Funnily enough: the ones who appear to be moaning, and being very prejudiced, are the very ones who are actually benefitting from hard working parents such as 'ours', who not only area paying into the public coffers to fund such state schooling, to allow them to study for 'free'....... even though those same parents are not putting any strain on that same State system, by opting to use their hard earned money toward private education.

Strange that eh.....

But not all parents can afford private education. There are plenty of hard working mums and dads who work long hours but still can't afford to pay for private education and they have no choice but to go to a public school. These parents still don't spend their money on fancy holidays or cars or whatever. All the hours they work can only pay for the bills and put food on the table and that's it. I do know that middle class families. Some of them save up every penny to put their sprog through private school but others.. even after every penny they have saved. Can't afford it!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Beastie

But not all parents can afford private education. There are plenty of hard working mums and dads who work long hours but still can't afford to pay for private education and they have no choice but to go to a public school. These parents still don't spend their money on fancy holidays or cars or whatever. All the hours they work can only pay for the bills and put food on the table and that's it. I do know that middle class families. Some of them save up every penny to put their sprog through private school but others.. even after every penny they have saved. Can't afford it!

And there are plenty of families who spend a fortune every single month on the most expensive clothing, shoes, trainers, jackets, iphones, ipads, laptops, XBoxes, Playstations, all the games etc, holidays spent lazing on a beach only, car replaced every 2 years, ....... who also take the view that 'they cannot afford to send their kids to private school'.

They could afford it 3 times over if they chose to...if they wanted to.

Of course there will be plenty who simply cannot afford - but to shut eyes to the great many who COULD -but spend the money on materialistic things, is far higher than many will admit to.

Much of it comes down to choice...and if some working class parents wish to divert any disposible income towards a better education: then so be it.

the point about scholarships etc, funding grants etc: all seems to be getting ignored - it's not only for those who can financially afford, there are other options available.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

And there are plenty of families who spend a fortune every single month on the most expensive clothing, shoes, trainers, jackets, iphones, ipads, laptops, XBoxes, Playstations, all the games etc, holidays spent lazing on a beach only, car replaced every 2 years, ....... who also take the view that 'they cannot afford to send their kids to private school'.

They could afford it 3 times over if they chose to...if they wanted to.

Of course there will be plenty who simply cannot afford - but to shut eyes to the great many who COULD -but spend the money on materialistic things, is far higher than many will admit to.

Much of it comes down to choice...and if some working class parents wish to divert any disposible income towards a better education: then so be it.

the point about scholarships etc, funding grants etc: all seems to be getting ignored - it's not only for those who can financially afford, there are other options available.

Much of it comes down to choice? Not really. Most people couldn't afford XX amount per year for a private school. Suppose it also depends how many sprogs you have too. Not all people spend money on the latest materialistic fashions. Some families are lucky enough to afford a day out somewhere with their kids!! There is too much stereotyping. It all comes down to the family itself. Yes.. one working class family could spend all their earnings on Sky TV or whatever. But then another saves every penny to put food on the table for the family and pay the bills!!

I think most families. Working, middle, upper class and whatever. Most of them want their children to have a decent education.

Yes I agree more funding grants and scholarships should be given out. My grandma got a funding grant/scholarship years ago because she came from quite a poor family. But she was gifted academically. She became a headteacher of a school and taught Maths.

However University. You only only have to pay the XX amount of tuition fees back if you earn over 21 grand a year. Bloody hell I would be over the moon earning 20 grand a year!! But then again if you go to Uni.. well it's free to get all your resources from the library. Well I think so.. when I was at college I think they were keeping an account of how often pupils were allowed to print off their college work. If you live at home it will be cheaper too usually if people can have that choice.

[lostalex]

If you work hard and earn money, you should be able to spend it however you like, including on private education for your children.
All of the arguments against private education are basically saying they want to live in a communist state. One school for everyone, no choices.

If you believe in freedom, then you should want to have as many choices as possible. Freedom means choices. Private schools mean more choices for everyone.

[Liberty4eva]

Personally, I think a more appropriate question would be should public schools exist? The primary function of public schools today is for you to learn how to be a good (and by good I mean subserviant) citizen of the state that has no backbone and is incapable of independent thought. The dirty little secret is you don't need to be super wealthy for kids to be homeschooled so I think public schools should be abolished. Think of all the less taxes people would have to pay.

[Liberty4eva]

Maybe I should elaborate a little more on my last post.

In public schools today (in the states) at the start of every single school day children put their right hand up over their heart, face the classroom flag and say "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." I bet at least 95% of adult Americans can still remember it by heart because that's what they recited every single day. And it's all about indoctrinating people into believing the US is a force for good. In school, you'll learn about how 9/11 happened the way the 9/11 commission said it happened. You'll learn about how Oswald shot Kennedy the way the Warren report says it happened. You'll learn about how the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for security and altruistic/humanitarian reasons like "spreading democracy". You'll learn about how the north fought the American Civil War to end slavery when keeping the Southern tax revenue flowing to Washington was probably closer to the real reason. Most importantly, you'll learn that our government sometimes makes mistakes but ultimately they're trying their best because they care about each and every one of us. When you get to the University level, you'll learn how the Federal Reserve is there to stabilize our money supply, keep inflation low, and in general help our economy and how fiat money is superior to commodity money like gold or silver. Basically, they're out to squash any trace of independent thought and make you into someone who will ask no questions and obey all orders.

Public schools should be phased out.

[lostalex]

were you home schooled liberty4?

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by lostalex

were you home schooled liberty4?

A little bit. In the 4th grade I was and for high school I was.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

A little bit. In the 4th grade I was.

Well i'm certainly glad i wasn't home-schooled. I think social interaction and having peers your own age is important for a child's development.

I don't think home-schoolin should be illegal, but i do think parents should have to have a certified teaching degree if they home-school their children.

homeschooling does seem like a bit of a cult...sometimes. :| no offense..