[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yes I agree, we should understand terrorists, it's certainly not just a black and white picture of America/Britain = good, Taleban = bad.

the taliban arn't bad? The Taliban supported Al Queada, let them have training camps, gave Osama Bin Laden his platform to INVENT 9/11. The Taliban are just as Guilty of 9/11 as Al Queada.

Every single Taliban should be killed, just like they were trying to kill every American. the Taliban were perfectly happy to let OBL kill Americans, now they have the gall to complain that they are the victims? Give me a FOOKING BREAK.

Every death, torture and indignity done to the Taliban is fully justified.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I think you understand it.

It's like when someone has something nasty to say about your family. Now they may be saying the same things you've said to your own family members, but if someone outside the family says it, you will be defensive. The point is, it's none of your business, you are not American, you are European, you have plenty of problems in Europe, how DARE you have anything to say about America.

You saying something about my family, is not the same as me saying something nasty about my family. Why do Europeans think they have the RIGHT to have a comment? it's none of you're business.

You will not find a single comment on this forum where i criticized Europe without them saying something about America first.

I have no interest in giving my 2 cents into European business. But once you talk about ME and MINE, then the flood gates open. You wanna talk about America, then i have every right to start talking about Europe.

That's fair, imo.

Well that's the crux of the matter, you consider your country a "family" who you should defend no matter what, rightly or wrongly. I don't see it that way, and that kind of thinking is why I'm don't really like patriotism in general, we shouldn't be reluctant to criticise our own country because our nationality is only decided by chance.

And I know you only talk about Europe when people talk about America but that's the problem, it means people can't criticise the US without things turning into some kind of a contest on here. I wouldn't mind if someone actually said something like "Europe is perfect while America is a hellhole" but nobody really does think like that.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well that's the crux of the matter, you consider your country a "family" who you should defend no matter what, rightly or wrongly. I don't see it that way, and that kind of thinking is why I'm don't really like patriotism in general, we shouldn't be reluctant to criticise our own country because our nationality is only decided by chance.

And I know you only talk about Europe when people talk about America but that's the problem, it means people can't criticise the US without things turning into some kind of a contest on here. I wouldn't mind if someone actually said something like "Europe is perfect while America is a hellhole" but nobody really does think like that.

So then why are you so offended when i give it back if you arn't defensive about your country and continent??

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

the taliban arn't bad? The Taliban supported Al Queada, let them have training camps, gave Osama Bin Laden his platform to INVENT 9/11. The Taliban are just as Guilty of 9/11 as Al Queada.

Every single Taliban should be killed, just like they were trying to kill every American. the Taliban were perfectly happy to let OBL kill Americans, now they have the gall to complain that they are the victims? Give me a FOOKING BREAK.

Every death, torture and indignity done to the Taliban is fully justified.

Again, this is too black and white a picture. It doesn't hurt to understand why people might join the Taliban, or have a different perspective on things. Do you think that if foreign invaders had entered your country and waged war on it for over a decade you wouldn't hold some animosity towards them as well? A lot of them have very legitimate grievances against NATO and the West

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

So then why are you so offended when i give it back if you arn't defensive about your country and continent??

Because it derails threads and takes them off-topic, turning things into just plain mud slinging and Britain v America contests

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Again, this is too black and white a picture. It doesn't hurt to understand why people might join the Taliban, or have a different perspective on things. Do you think that if foreign invaders had entered your country and waged war on it for over a decade you wouldn't hold some animosity towards them as well? A lot of them have very legitimate grievances against NATO and the West

foreign invaders? there were no US troops in Afghanistan before 9/11, so wtf are you talking about?? In fact, we actually gave them HELP when the RUSSIANS were invading them, and look what we got for helping them. No good deed goes unpunished.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because it derails threads and takes them off-topic, turning things into just plain mud slinging and Britain v America contests

So why arn't you giving tit to the people that try to use America as a scapegoat, instead you are focusing on me. You're making no sense. If someone brings America into the conversation, then i ave every right to respond to them. I'm not the one that brings America into the conversations. As an American though, i do have a responsibility to educate ignorant people about America, if they want to talk lies about my country.

Originally Posted by lostalex

So why arn't you giving tit to the people that try to use America as a scapegoat, instead you are focusing on me. You're making no sense. If someone brings America into the conversation, then i ave every right to respond to them. I'm not the one that brings America into the conversations. As an American though, i do have a responsibility to educate ignorant people about America, if they want to talk lies about my country.

Can you identify the lies, please?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

foreign invaders? there were no US troops in Afghanistan before 9/11, so wtf are you talking about?? In fact, we actually gave them HELP when the RUSSIANS were invading them, and look what we got for helping them. No good deed goes unpunished.

Because every single Taliban fighter joined before 9/11 did they? Recruitment has never been so high since the war started

Originally Posted by lostalex

So why arn't you giving tit to the people that try to use America as a scapegoat, instead you are focusing on me. You're making no sense. If someone brings America into the conversation, then i ave every right to respond to them. I'm not the one that brings America into the conversations. As an American though, i do have a responsibility to educate ignorant people about America, if they want to talk lies about my country.

If someone randomly went into a thread and said "America's such a ****hole, Britain is amazing" then yeah but if someone says something about America when it's relevant to the thread or discussion then there's no need to jump in and turn it into a contest by trying to prove the UK/Europe is worse

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because every single Taliban fighter joined before 9/11 did they? Recruitment has never been so high since the war started



If someone randomly went into a thread and said "America's such a ****hole, Britain is amazing" then yeah but if someone says something about America when it's relevant to the thread or discussion then there's no need to jump in and turn it into a contest by trying to prove the UK/Europe is worse

i have never attacked Britain, i've simply put things into perspective. If i hated Britain and British people then i would be trolling,. and i don't troll. I never start any conversation or post being negative about the UK, ever. If you can prove me wrong please quote any post i've made where i was negative about the UK without provocation.

[Me. I Am Salman]

when American troops potentially put the lives of normal civillians in danger, no wonder more people are signing up to the taliban. they see america as the west sees terrorists.

[lostalex]

Don't try to use America as a scapegoat. I'm critical of America in plenty of threads as well, but if you try to use America as a scapegoat unfairly, then i'll educate you. The fact is there is a lot of xenophobic racists against America on this forum, and i have absolutely no guilt about standing up to them. I have no problem talking about the problems in America when it's fair, but when it's unfair, my back will go up, and i'll get just as nasty in response. And i'm perfectly justified in doing so.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Salman!

when American troops potentially put the lives of normal civillians in danger, no wonder more people are signing up to the taliban. they see america as the west sees terrorists.

As oppossed to British troops, or australian c=troops or canadian troops or dutch troopps? why are you singling out American troops? don't be stupid. It's NATO in Afghanistan, not America.

Originally Posted by lostalex

Don't try to use America as a scapegoat. I'm critical of America in plenty of threads as well, but if you try to use America as a scapegoat unfairly, then i'll educate you.

Examples of American scapegoating, please?

Examples of the lies you claimed had been spoken in this thread?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i have never attacked Britain, i've simply put things into perspective. If i hated Britain and British people then i would be trolling,. and i don't troll. I never start any conversation or post being negative about the UK, ever. If you can prove me wrong please quote any post i've made where i was negative about the UK without provocation.

Well a post like this for example: http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...t=#post4786617

It was completely uncalled for and irrelevant to the thread.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Examples of American scapegoating, please?

Examples of the lies you claimed had been spoken in this thread?

lol..
America causes racism, America causes obesity, America causes terrorism, America causes bad movies and destruction of "real culture". need i go on? You must be kidding.

We arn't talking about just THIS thread, obviously. i'm beiong accussed of some how being patriotic and nationalist in all threads, so don't try to make it just about this thread.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yes I agree, we should understand terrorists, it's certainly not just a black and white picture of America/Britain = good, Taleban = bad.

I'm sorry MTVN but I have to disagree with you here,Al Qaeda was bad for causing 9/11 when the Americans hadn't even done anything to them at that point.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

I'm sorry MTVN but I have to disagree with you here,Al Qaeda was bad for causing 9/11 when the Americans hadn't even done anything to them at that point.

Even they had their motives though, the US had a military base in Saudi Arabia for example, Bin Laden thought that was a desecration of holy land. And there were the sanctions against Iraq which prevented necessities going into the country and caused huge poverty. And there's obviously the US support for Israel as well.

I'm definitely not saying these justified 9/11 but it's not really true that America hadn't done anything in the Middle East

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well a post like this for example: http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...t=#post4786617

It was completely uncalled for and irrelevant to the thread.

I remember that post.

Originally Posted by jedward fever

I'm sorry MTVN but I have to disagree with you here,Al Qaeda was bad for causing 9/11 when the Americans hadn't even done anything to them at that point.

That's just not true. The Americans support the Israeli occupation of Palestine, they have put dictators into place across the Muslim world. Bin Laden was funded by the USA, when he was fighting the Russians.

The US has very dirty hands when it comes to the Muslim world (as does the UK in fairness).

That said, even if the US had agreed to remove all their troops from Muslim lands across the globe, Bin Laden would have still attacked them.

Originally Posted by lostalex

lol..
America causes racism, America causes obesity, America causes terrorism, America causes bad movies and destruction of "real culture". need i go on? You must be kidding.

We arn't talking about just THIS thread, obviously. i'm beiong accussed of some how being patriotic and nationalist in all threads, so don't try to make it just about this thread.

Apologies then, but I've never seen/participated in those threads. I thought you were specifically talking about this thread.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Even they had their motives though, the US had a military base in Saudi Arabia for example, Bin Laden thought that was a desecration of holy land. And there were the sanctions against Iraq which prevented necessities going into the country and caused huge poverty. And there's obviously the US support for Israel as well.

I'm definitely not saying these justified 9/11 but it's not really true that America hadn't done anything in the Middle East

I thought the Iraq war was after the Afghan war? because I remember the Americans was claiming weapons of mass destruction.

The Americans are not perfect but they hadn't done anything to Afrghanistan which is the only country Bin Laden should have been protecting really,so I don't see why he went for them really.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

I thought the Iraq war was after the Afghan war? because I remember the Americans was claiming weapons of mass distruction.

The Americans are not perfect but they hadn't done anything to Afrghanistan which is the only country Bin Laden should be protecting really,so I don't see why he went for them really.

It wasn't the first time the US used military action against Iraq though, they also did in the Gulf War after Iraq invaded Kuwait, after which economic sanctions were imposed which was in part responsible for thousands of deaths. And Bin Laden was Saudi I think and most of the hijackers were also from there which is why they were so angered about the American intervention in Saudi Arabia

Originally Posted by jedward fever

I thought the Iraq war was after the Afghan war? because I remember the Americans was claiming weapons of mass destruction.

The Americans are not perfect but they hadn't done anything to Afrghanistan which is the only country Bin Laden should have been protecting really,so I don't see why he went for them really.

The first Iraq war in 1990 lead to sanctions against Iraq right up until the 2nd war commenced.

Your history is a little skewed there, too. When the internets is properly working again, you should research the history behind it all, it's really fascinating. But then again, I am a history geek.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

The first Iraq war in 1990 lead to sanctions against Iraq right up until the 2nd war commenced.

Your history is a little skewed there, too. When the internets is properly working again, you should research the history behind it all, it's really fascinating. But then again, I am a history geek.

Yeah ok thanks.

And MTVN I didn't know Bin Laden was Saudi,I assumed he was from Afghanistan considering the Americans was so angry at them at the time.