Originally Posted by lostalex

So you're telling me that you can tell a jew from a gentile just by looking at them? That's racist.

So you are saying that if you can't tell the ethnic history of someone, just by looking at them, then they all belong to "white European?" Think about that statement a little more, then really think which of those statements is racist.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

So you are saying that if you can't tell the ethnic history of someone, just by looking at them, then they all belong to "white European?" Think about that statement a little more, then really think which of those statements is racist.

NO, i've said before, that everyone is mixed race, that's why it's not just the stereotypes about how you look that makes you a certain race,. I'M SAYINg that racism is about PERCEIVING someone as DIFFERENT and INFERIOR that makes it racism.

If you PERCEIVE someone as DIFFERENT, whether because of culture, ethnicity, religion, nationality it's all racism. It's all the same type of PREJUDICE. because that's what racism is, prejudice.

Originally Posted by lostalex

NO, i've said before, that everyone is mixed race, that's why it's not just the stereotypes about how you look that makes you a certain race,. I'M SAYINg that racism is about PERCEIVING someone as DIFFERENT and INFERIOR that makes it racism.

If you PERCEIVE someone as DIFFERENT, whether because of culture, ethnicity, religion, nationality it's all racism. It's all the same type of PREJUDICE. because that's what racism is, prejudice.

What about if that group of people, namely Jews, perceive themselves differently, solely because of culture, ethnicity, religion, etc?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

What about if that group of people, namely Jews, perceive themselves differently, solely because of culture, ethnicity, religion, etc?

Like i said before, anti-semitism IS racism. Hitler was a racist, even though the jews and gays he killed were mostly white skinned. Racism is more about culture than it is about skin color, imo.

Originally Posted by lostalex

Like i said before, anti-semitism IS racism. Hitler was a racist, even though the jews and gays he killed were mostly white skinned. Racism is more about culture than it is about skin color, imo.

You're going round in circles. Antisemitism is racist, because the Semites (Jews) are a race of people. Skin colour is irrelevant, and I don't think anyone in this thread has said it's about skin colour.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

You're going round in circles. Antisemitism is racist, because the Semites (Jews) are a race of people. Skin colour is irrelevant, and I don't think anyone in this thread has said it's about skin colour.

actually you said because Americans are majority white european decent, then it's not racism.

And so if someone is anti-semetic to someone who is not "racially" jewish, like a convert, then you don't think that's racist anymore? Like whoopi Goldberg, if someone said something anti-semetic to Whoopi Goldberg you'd say it wasn't racist, because she's not "racially" jewish?? really?

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually you said because Americans are majority white european decent, then it's not racism.

And so if someone is anti-semetic to someone who is not "racially" jewish, like a convert, then you don't think that's racist anymore? Like whoopi Goldberg, if someone said something anti-semetic to Whoopi Goldberg you'd say it wasn't racist, because she's not "racially" jewish?? really?

I was just making the point that Americans are Europeans. So being racist against your own racial group is on the difficult side. In fact, it becomes xenophobia, which clarifies my original argument.

I would expect everyone everywhere to be disturbed by racism. I just wouldn't expect people to have to go to such lengths to try and manufacture a racism debate.

[lostalex]

Well i think we disagree about the definition of racism, which is fine, because like i said, it's turned into more of a political catch-all term, and it's confusing for a lot of people.

I think i've put more thought into it than you have though.

i really appreciate the fact that we've been able to have such a mature conversation about it though. A Lot of people on this forum are not able to have such a respectful conversation about such a controversial issue,. So i praise and appreciate you for that.

[Carniala]

Well all I see in the twins game is nastiness and the feeling that they think they are superior to everybody else around them, all they say all the time is: "we are beautiful, we are intelligent and they are so stupid and jealous of us because we are beautiful"

Beauty comes 90% from the inside and 10% from the outside look, and exterior beauty only last so long and if the rest of your beauty (inside it is) is lacking then it does not take long before all you are is the ugliest around.

The twins might have some external beauty ( about a 6 out of 10) but inside they are (1 out of 10) and I am being very generous. All they think about is themselves, and do they even think to be nice or even acknowledge the rest of the housemates or anybody else on this planet, I really doubt it TBH.

They have been raised as princess and they act like Pratt, they have no talent what so ever, they have I suspect no knowledge of anything useful.They have hearths of stone and are devoid of any true feelings toward anybody but themselves.

So please tell me what is it to love about them?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Carniala

Well all I see in the twins game is nastiness and the feeling that they think they are superior to everybody else around them, all they say all the time is: we are beautiful, we are intelligent and they are so stupid and jealous of us because we are beutiful"

Beauty comes 90% from the inside and 10% from the outside look, and exterior beauty only last so long and if the rest of your beauty (inside it is) is lacking then it does not take long before all you are is the ugliest around.

The twins might have some external beauty ( about a 6 out of 10) but inside they are (1 out of 10) and I am being very generous. All they think about is themselves, and do they even think to be nice or even acknowledge the rest of the housemates or anybody else on this planet, I really doubt it TBH.

They have been raised as princess and they act like Pratt, they have no talent what so ever, they have I suspect no knowledge of anything useful.They have hearths of stone and are devoid of any true feelings toward anybody but themselves.

So please tell me what is it to love about them?

they are not wrong.

And please tell me anything they've done that was nasty. How have they been mean or nasty to anyone??? They havn't.

[fitz2k2]

get out of my mind charles! lol

[smartalec2718]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well i think we disagree about the definition of racism, which is fine, because like i said, it's turned into more of a political catch-all term, and it's confusing for a lot of people.

I think i've put more thought into it than you have though.

i really appreciate the fact that we've been able to have such a mature conversation about it though. A Lot of people on this forum are not able to have such a respectful conversation about such a controversial issue,. So i praise and appreciate you for that.

Lostalex, I have never really agreed with you on much, and I have to disagree with you again here. "Racism" means discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race, and "race" refers to common descent, ancestry, or heredity. The classification system used to subdivide people into races depends on observable characteristics like heritable phenotypes (basic physical variations like eye color, etc.), geographic ancestry, physical appearance, and ethnicity. Race does NOT have to do with culture and nationality, as you claim. An American of Polish descent and a Polish national have different cultures and nationalities, but they're of the same race because they're from a common ancestry.

If I were to ask you what the typical "American" looks like, you'd probably tell me that's a dumb question, right? America is an incredibly diverse place founded and populated by immigrants from the world over, representing tons of different ethnic groups. Everyone in America certainly doesn't come from the same origin, so it would be erroneous to say there is an "American race". An American culture, identity, nationality, sure - but not a race. Racism, then, is a feeling of superiority or a tendency to persecute based on differences in origin/ancestry. So it's impossible to be racist against Americans as a whole - maybe you meant prejudiced or discriminatory towards.

Just there are two differing opinions on an issue doesn't mean one is objectively right. And though it wasn't directed at me, I was struck by the presumptuousness of your claim that "I think I've put more thought into it than you." That seems needlessly arrogant, even for you.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by smartalec2718

Lostalex, I have never really agreed with you on much, and I have to disagree with you again here. "Racism" means discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race, and "race" refers to common descent, ancestry, or heredity. The classification system used to subdivide people into races depends on observable characteristics like heritable phenotypes (basic physical variations like eye color, etc.), geographic ancestry, physical appearance, and ethnicity. Race does NOT have to do with culture and nationality, as you claim. An American of Polish descent and a Polish national have different cultures and nationalities, but they're of the same race because they're from a common ancestry.

If I were to ask you what the typical "American" looks like, you'd probably tell me that's a dumb question, right? America is an incredibly diverse place founded and populated by immigrants from the world over, representing tons of different ethnic groups. Everyone in America certainly doesn't come from the same origin, so it would be erroneous to say there is an "American race". An American culture, identity, nationality, sure - but not a race. Racism, then, is a feeling of superiority or a tendency to persecute based on differences in origin/ancestry. So it's impossible to be racist against Americans as a whole - maybe you meant prejudiced or discriminatory towards.

Just there are two differing opinions on an issue doesn't mean one is objectively right. And though it wasn't directed at me, I was struck by the presumptuousness of your claim that "I think I've put more thought into it than you." That seems needlessly arrogant, even for you.

Well you are wrong. there are White africans, there are Black europeans, and there are people who identify as white or black, even though people might perceieve them to be the opposite of what they idenify with. Colour has nothing to do with race, because there is no race, geneteticists have already proven that. If you can figure out anyone who is a specific race then you should call a scientist, because scientists have not been able to identify a singular race at all. We're all mixed "race" and therefore it's all about self-identity and culture, nothing to do with any kind of real "race". that's the truth.

When people use the word racism, they actually are talking about prejudice.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Not racist at all, just against any form of bullying ,and ALL 3 Yanks this year have been bullies in one shape of form

Would definitely disagree re Michael, he has had a lot to put up with and had Denise not been so forceful with him in the beginning things could have been different. The house was turned against him but of course no one wants to think that D could be a bully, maybe not a bully but other words could fit in. The twins kept moreorless to themselves in the beginning.

Being british I feel quite distressed about the quality of our supposed celebrities, a few have put me off of their programmes altogether and I sincerely hope they do not get into any other slots.

[saiwong]

Originally Posted by Carniala

all they say all the time is: "we are beautiful, we are intelligent and they are so stupid and jealous of us because we are beautiful"

I think this type of statement is a cultural thing.

In the UK we may be brought up to say something like :

"If I pass my degree I want to be an office manager"

however, in America you may be brought up to say something like :

"When I pass my degree I want to be an office manager"

Using 'When' instead of "If" may be considered arrogant and big headed.
However, the culture in the USA is positive thinking. It is not "if" you are
going to pass your exams, it is "when" you pass your exams.
This can backfire, when heard by people from different nations and
perceived as being cocky and arrogant.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Bojangles

I like the twins as well.I think they are heading for a career in the UK.Good luck to them.

Not if that perisher on BOTS has got anything to do with it cant stand the bloke. Was it a fair assessment last night for BOTS to give Denise her appraisal by a friend who really felt for her and then give that other idiot the right to praise the twins, he didnt!!! He criticised them and the Americans. Not fair BOTS, not at all.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by saiwong

I think this type of statement is a cultural thing.

In the UK we may be brought up to say something like :

"If I pass my degree I want to be an office manager"

however, in America you may be brought up to say something like :

"When I pass my degree I want to be an office manager"

Using 'When' instead of "If" may be considered arrogant and big headed.
However, the culture in the USA is positive thinking. It is not "if" you are
going to pass your exams, it is "when" you pass your exams.
This can backfire, when heard by people from different nations and
perceived as being cocky and arrogant.

I totally agree and I do believe in positive thinking. Doesnt hurt to try

Originally Posted by Jules2

I totally agree and I do believe in positive thinking. Doesnt hurt to try

American children rank number one in the world when it comes to confidence, but 37th when it comes to actual achievement. I'll try and dig out the survey I read a while back.

[jasper]

Originally Posted by Carniala

Well all I see in the twins game is nastiness and the feeling that they think they are superior to everybody else around them, all they say all the time is: "we are beautiful, we are intelligent and they are so stupid and jealous of us because we are beautiful"

Beauty comes 90% from the inside and 10% from the outside look, and exterior beauty only last so long and if the rest of your beauty (inside it is) is lacking then it does not take long before all you are is the ugliest around.

The twins might have some external beauty ( about a 6 out of 10) but inside they are (1 out of 10) and I am being very generous. All they think about is themselves, and do they even think to be nice or even acknowledge the rest of the housemates or anybody else on this planet, I really doubt it TBH.

They have been raised as princess and they act like Pratt, they have no talent what so ever, they have I suspect no knowledge of anything useful.They have hearths of stone and are devoid of any true feelings toward anybody but themselves.

So please tell me what is it to love about them?

[billy123]

If behaving like a snidey **** is admired in america you can keep it we dont want it over here.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Carniala

Well all I see in the twins game is nastiness and the feeling that they think they are superior to everybody else around them, all they say all the time is: "we are beautiful, we are intelligent and they are so stupid and jealous of us because we are beautiful"

Beauty comes 90% from the inside and 10% from the outside look, and exterior beauty only last so long and if the rest of your beauty (inside it is) is lacking then it does not take long before all you are is the ugliest around.

The twins might have some external beauty ( about a 6 out of 10) but inside they are (1 out of 10) and I am being very generous. All they think about is themselves, and do they even think to be nice or even acknowledge the rest of the housemates or anybody else on this planet, I really doubt it TBH.

They have been raised as princess and they act like Pratt, they have no talent what so ever, they have I suspect no knowledge of anything useful.They have hearths of stone and are devoid of any true feelings toward anybody but themselves.

So please tell me what is it to love about them?

EXCELLENT !and I dont even think they are pretty,never mind beautiful, as you say beauty starts within and these 2 are rank rotten ,Karissa could be a Gail Platt lookalike chinless wonder !! not pretty,not nice

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by bobnot

If behaving like a snidey **** is admired in america you can keep it we dont want it over here.

[DigitalMethod]

What i find ironic is the apparent bi-polar disorder most "voters" seem to suffer from. I mean, for example on BOTS at first they were all for Romeo, now they (rightfully) are starting to turn on him. Interesting, they (and most user here) continue to preach that it's about entertainment value and how they want people in the house that will start sh*t.
Now here we have a situation where someone has done exactly that (the twins) and oddly the public seems to have lost some of its "twin fever" and Frankie is now favored to win. How funny that the one person last night who was trying to defuse the situation is now all of a sudden in everyone's good graces? Laughable.

If you want drama then you dont back the person in the house who is trying to stop the drama from happening. It's clearly a sheep mentality the voting public (seem) to follow, unable to stick to a solid opinion.