[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by Livia

All that means is that -as Niamh's pointed out - the decent, hardworking people end up paying more tax. Just because some rich people are twats (and not all of them are, they're employers and investors) doesn't mean you should admire someone for screwing the system that I am (and possibly you are) paying for through mythe tax system.

I'm not sure anyone admires them, some appear to feel it's more important a crime than others I'd say.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I will, there will always be greedy dishonest people, but who are the latest 'folk devils' the underclass not the MPs and their duck houses.
Are we living in another new right infested tory government? yes we are....Is the sun whipping up a moral panic? yes it is.
This could all have been avoided, no need for birth certificates.
ONE phone call to the registrar, when? where? who?...job done.

How ace is this elephant?

Well that's a bit jumbled but I'll work through it.

We have the government people voted for. If everyone who was eligible to vote actually did vote then the story might be different.

You probably don't know any MPs, what they do, how they work or how hard their staff work, not just in government but in their own constituencies. You remember one story about a moron with a duck house who tried to screw his expenses and you're going to cling on to that story for dear life and hold it up as an example for every other tory-hating leftie, conveniently forgetting all the MPs from all parties who didn't screw the system. Your hatred for the Right has made you lose sight of the fact that the left no longer really exists because it's full of champagne socialists richer than many Conservatives. You labour under the illusion that all Tories are rich, privately educated, trust-fund backed toffs, when this is just not the case. However, your hatred of the Right colours your judgement to such an extent that you end up sticking up for somoeone sucking money out of your own pocket by fiddling the benefits system you pay for.

The elephant is not ace, it's annoying and doesn't really do much to illustrate your point on a serious thread, to be frank.

[Kizzy]

Well thanks for the patronising rant livia. I dont have to know MPs personally, i read and watch the news. Fiddling your expenses is fraud. MPs are paid a fitting wage for the work they do.
Shall we fill the sun newspaper with EVERY MP that was found to have committed this FRAUD? Name and shame each one.
No one admires criminals, whatever social background they come from.

[MTVN]

I'd imagine this was more just an anomaly than the norm, and not necessarily as a result of an inherent flaw in the benefit system, it seems they were aware she was overclaiming for years. I find stories like these are more often than not sensationalised by the likes of the Sun and the Mail, and if you ask me it is relevant to point out that millions, even billions, of pounds are lost by hugely wealthy firms and people who manage to avoid paying taxes and find loopholes, and yet are not vilified in the same way that benefit cheats are

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'd imagine this was more just an anomaly than the norm, and not necessarily as a result of an inherent flaw in the benefit system, it seems they were aware she was overclaiming for years. I find stories like these are more often than not sensationalised by the likes of the Sun and the Mail, and if you ask me it is relevant to point out that millions, even billions, of pounds are lost by hugely wealthy firms and people who manage to avoid paying taxes and find loopholes, and yet are not vilified in the same way that benefit cheats are

No Banks are now Paying Tax Loopholes.


Yes it Front Page,
of course many other mums are Not Criminal
but she is

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by arista

No Banks are now Paying Tax Loopholes.


Yes it Front Page,
of course many other mums are Not Criminal
but she is

I wasn't necessarily talking about banks, tax evasion is still a problem and still deprives the economy of millions, or billions of pounds

[Kizzy]

My question is what do they do in the DWP? Over ten years...it cant be possible surely.

[thesheriff443]

this is an example of how fcuked this country is!
my mate hade a 12,ooo tax bill,that he could not clear in one go,he offered to pay 100 every month until it was clear,they said no and took him to court to make him bankrupt and they got nothing!

[Angus]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

I'd never do such a thing, and frankly, although I don't condone what they are doing I do tend to think these people are used as scapegoats to a certain extent to keep our eyes focused away from the rich and the scams they get up to.

Divide and rule, divide and rule..

What muddled thinking! To paraphrase a famous quotation "all it takes for fraud to flourish is for people to turn a blind eye". It's precisely because of scroungers defrauding the system that scarce resources are misdirected and those who truly need help can't get it. I would report a scrounging scumbag in a heartbeat, and not go around polishing my halo for not "grassing up" said scumbag, or pontificating about notional scams which might or might not be perpetrated by "rich" people, when you have actual scamming going on under your very nose of which you are fully aware.

Fraud is fraud whoever is committing it. Being poor doesn't give you licence to go around thieving and defrauding the system. From the sound of it the women you are talking about are NOT poor, they have working partners, and are just greedy, con artists.

[thesheriff443]

the real vilians are the people in power that sent are troops to die fighting the so called threat of weapons of mass destruction,when the real reason was to safe gaurd the oil!.

[Benjamin]

Stupid woman. I hope this comes back to bite her lazy ass. Too many sponging layabouts nowadays who want something for nothing and feel the world always owes them more, even though they contribute **** all to society. If I had my way I'd line these lazy people up and send them to mines/orchards/farms to do some hard labour so they know exactly what some people have to go through to get their wage and bread each day.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well thanks for the patronising rant livia. I dont have to know MPs personally, i read and watch the news. Fiddling your expenses is fraud. MPs are paid a fitting wage for the work they do.
Shall we fill the sun newspaper with EVERY MP that was found to have committed this FRAUD? Name and shame each one.
No one admires criminals, whatever social background they come from.

Yes, fiddling your expenses IS fraud, you're quite right. However, the MPs that did commit the fraud have already been named and shamed in a whole host of newspapers, I don't see how anyone could have missed it. I can assure you that all expense claims have been tightened up to a ridiculous degree in Parliament, ensuring those MPs (and their staff) who wouldn't ever have dreamed of fiddling their expenses find it almost impossible to claim for even ligitimate stuff these days, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority sees to that. So I have reason to detest the MPs who fiddled, and I do detest them. But MPs expenses have been done to death, and yet every time some feckless member of the unter-class gets caught fiddling a benefits system that's meant to be there to help the most needy, a whole host of people whip out the old tar brush and give everyone in parliament a dab with it.

As you mention that MPs are paid "a fitting wage", I have to disagree there also. They're paid around Ł60,000pa. That's not even a middle management salary in the private sector, and for the responsibility they take it just ensures that only people of private means can afford to be MPs. People from less well-off backgrounds take their skills and find better paid employment elsewhere.

[arista]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

the real vilians are the people in power that sent are troops to die fighting the so called threat of weapons of mass destruction,when the real reason was to save gaurd the oil!.

Yes Off Topic

But Evil Blair and New Labour
was a Warmonger

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ukturtle

Stupid woman. I hope this comes back to bite her lazy ass. Too many sponging layabouts nowadays who want something for nothing and feel the world always owes them more, even though they contribute **** all to society. If I had my way I'd line these lazy people up and send them to mines/orchards/farms to do some hard labour so they know exactly what some people have to go through to get their wage and bread each day.

[MTVN]

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes, fiddling your expenses IS fraud, you're quite right. However, the MPs that did commit the fraud have already been named and shamed in a whole host of newspapers, I don't see how anyone could have missed it. I can assure you that all expense claims have been tightened up to a ridiculous degree in Parliament, ensuring those MPs (and their staff) who wouldn't ever have dreamed of fiddling their expenses find it almost impossible to claim for even ligitimate stuff these days, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority sees to that. So I have reason to detest the MPs who fiddled, and I do detest them. But MPs expenses have been done to death, and yet every time some feckless member of the unter-class gets caught fiddling a benefits system that's meant to be there to help the most needy, a whole host of people whip out the old tar brush and give everyone in parliament a dab with it.

As you mention that MPs are paid "a fitting wage", I have to disagree there also. They're paid around Ł60,000pa. That's not even a middle management salary in the private sector, and for the responsibility they take it just ensures that only people of private means can afford to be MPs. People from less well-off backgrounds take their skills and find better paid employment elsewhere.

Well, there we have it livia, they are NOT in the private sector are they. they are public sector workers. If all you want is money and status then take your 'skills' and go i say.
And to be fair she can't be such a 'feckless' member of the underclass if she managed to defraud the DWP for 10 years can she?....I wonder if she has ever thought about a career in politics?....Im not for one second condoning her actions btw.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

here you go :

Spoiler:

[thesheriff443]

and before anyone says its beacuse of the cheats!they say there about 50,000 cheats how does that compare to the 59 million people people in the uk

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by ukturtle

Stupid woman. I hope this comes back to bite her lazy ass. Too many sponging layabouts nowadays who want something for nothing and feel the world always owes them more, even though they contribute **** all to society. If I had my way I'd line these lazy people up and send them to mines/orchards/farms to do some hard labour so they know exactly what some people have to go through to get their wage and bread each day.

I would say she has made a very important contribution to be fair, she brought to media attention failings in the current system.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by ukturtle

Stupid woman. I hope this comes back to bite her lazy ass. Too many sponging layabouts nowadays who want something for nothing and feel the world always owes them more, even though they contribute **** all to society. If I had my way I'd line these lazy people up and send them to mines/orchards/farms to do some hard labour so they know exactly what some people have to go through to get their wage and bread each day.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well, there we have it livia, they are NOT in the private sector are they. they are public sector workers. If all you want is money and status then take your 'skills' and go i say.
And to be fair she can't be such a 'feckless' member of the underclass if she managed to defraud the DWP for 10 years can she?....I wonder if she has ever thought about a career in politics?....Im not for one second condoning her actions btw.

And there we have what? You actually want your country run by people with private wealth behind them? I thought you were a socialist? It appears not. You're about a socialist as multi-millionaire Tony Blair.

It obviously doesn't take a genius to defraud a DWP that's been haemorraging cash for the whole of Labour's term. They didn't spot it for eight years... but of course, the Tories will be responsible for the whole ten years I'm guessing.

And this is you NOT condoning her actions? LOL... Okay.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I would say she has made a very important contribution to be fair, she brought to media attention failings in the current system.

Doesn't deflect the fact that she is a sponging scrounger though does it? One that is sapping money from society and doing nothing to contribute. Lazy people need a boot up their ass and to stop being pampered and treated like a victim.

[InOne]

She is scum. God knows what chance the kids have with a mother like that. Social services will hopefully be involved.

[Marsh.]

What kind of house was she in? Did no one find it odd that this woman with 10 kids was living in a 2 up 2 down backstreet of Manchester? Ridiculous.

My younger brother has cerebral palsy and has struggled for funding on all sorts of equipment, been on endless waiting lists to join groups and care centres and women like this just make it harder for everyone. Scum, she should be hung.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

What kind of house was she in? Did no one find it odd that this woman with 10 kids was living in a 2 up 2 down backstreet of Manchester? Ridiculous.

My younger brother has cerebral palsy and has struggled for funding on all sorts of equipment, been on endless waiting lists to join groups and care centres and women like this just make it harder for everyone. Scum, she should be hung.

Sorry to hear that, stories like this must be really maddening for you.