[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Glenn

My friend can.

And he doesn't make a penny for it. Hardly a fraud

Is that to me or jeebs? i agree if he can do it without having to hire out the local community centre and charging £20 a pop then great

[Glenn.]

Why would it be to you?

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Glenn

My friend can.

And he doesn't make a penny for it. Hardly a fraud

I didn't say he was a fraud btw, he probably does believe he can communicate and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, he doesn't sound greedy or anything, I don't think it harms anyone.

[Glenn.]

It's not a case of whether he believes he can do it. He can.

He says he wouldn't wish it on anyone. To him it's more of a burden than a gift.

[lostalex]

Why are we still talking about ghosts and psychics? i already told you guys, there are no ghosts, and psychics are nothing. There is such a thing as psychic power, but psychic power doesn't allow you to talk to the dead. The dead are gone forever.

People are experiencing invisible aliens.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Yes - Mediums/Psychics are frauds. They can't do anything that people with training can do.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think I've rubbished anyone who has claimed to believe in such things. I think I've challenged their positions, but people don't have the right to go through life without being offended. I also remember stating they were victims in this whole scenario, and they were being fleeced. That is a far cry from mocking people who believe it. I tell you what I have done, though. I've tried to provide evidence and theories for this whole subject.

I don't believe in the laws of physics in the same way I don't believe in the sun. It just is. They are part of our universe. I'm not a theoretical physicist, but I am a science geek. I don't need to know every discipline of the scientific process, but I'm confident in those who do work in this field. My confidence is ensured, through the constant using of the scientific method.
I wouldn't jump off a building just to see whether gravity really does exist.

I hope this "laws of physics" question isn't going to lead you on to some Deepak Chopra. But in fact, what I think you're trying to aim for, is quantum physics and the unpredictable predictability. Maybe a bit of string theory thrown in for good measure?

Considering you said you weren't interested in my points, but merely wanted to argue about proving a negative, I have no idea why you quoted my post at all.

A closed mind eh?

Could I ask where I said I wasnt interested in your points and merely wanted to argue to prove a negative? Or is this another random thrown in to muddy the water? Give you clue though go back a page or two and re-read the posts in the thread.

Originally Posted by Shasown

A closed mind eh?

Could I ask where I said I wasn't interested in your points and merely wanted to argue to prove a negative? Or is this another random thrown in to muddy the water? Give you clue though go back a page or two and re-read the posts in the thread.

I'm really sorry. I got you and 08marsh mixed up, so I take that sentence back. Is that the only part of my reply that you focused on? A throw away line at the end?

So where is my mind closed? You really were going to go down the Deepak Chopra route? Go one then. I owe you one after mixing you up with 08, so I'm all ears.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Why would it be to you?

I mentioned fraudulent mediums...

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Why are we still talking about ghosts and psychics? i already told you guys, there are no ghosts, and psychics are nothing. There is such a thing as psychic power, but psychic power doesn't allow you to talk to the dead. The dead are gone forever.

People are experiencing invisible aliens.

[Niamh.]

I don't know, probably not but I couldn't say for sure. Fortune tellers, I would say generally not but I did have one really weird experience with one

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Why are we still talking about ghosts and psychics? i already told you guys, there are no ghosts, and psychics are nothing. There is such a thing as psychic power, but psychic power doesn't allow you to talk to the dead. The dead are gone forever.

People are experiencing invisible aliens.

Not sure why aliens should be so believable and ghosts not tbh... There is no evidence for either that im aware of.
Im not saying you're wrong btw, nobody knows whats out there do they?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Not sure why aliens should be so believable and ghosts not tbh... There is no evidence for either that im aware of.
Im not saying you're wrong btw, nobody knows whats out there do they?

Probably because ghosts are super natural and would be a dead person still floating around, where as an alien is just like us a living thing on another planet with the right properties to sustain life, that's pretty believable to me, if we are here why couldn't there be another planet somewhere similar to ours, it's a vast universe out there

Originally Posted by kizzy

Not sure why aliens should be so believable and ghosts not tbh... There is no evidence for either that im aware of.
Im not saying you're wrong btw, nobody knows whats out there do they?

Because aliens are possible because of what we know about life. Life started on this planet once, and if it can start here, there are other planets with similar conditions that it can start too. That's only carbon based life too. For all we know, there may well be other possibilities for different kinds of life to evolve.

Alien life can be explained using natural laws, ghosts are supernatural.

[InOne]

Well I don't believe in God so there would be no reason for me to think the idea of ghosts has any more truth to it.

[Marsh.]

Typical yank thinking they're the centre of everything. Suggestion: get over yourself.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I'm really sorry. I got you and 08marsh mixed up, so I take that sentence back. Is that the only part of my reply that you focused on? A throw away line at the end?

So where is my mind closed? You really were going to go down the Deepak Chopra route? Go one then. I owe you one after mixing you up with 08, so I'm all ears.

Nah the throw away line was the only one I could be erssed taking you to task over.

Deepak Chopra? Nah read some of his work and thought he was just repackaging and modernising some older ideas, some say the epitome of pseudoscience.

I was thinking more basic laws than you incorrectly pre-supposed, but hey on you go matey.

Your mind is closed to the possibility of some sort of phenomena that people call ghosts actually existing. Multiple universes, multiple timelines, energy imprints, empathic feelings and a few other theories could explain said phenomena but hey you decided that ghosts have to be the residual spirit of a once living being hanging around on this earthly plane. And obviously that couldnt possibly happen could it?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Because aliens are possible because of what we know about life. Life started on this planet once, and if it can start here, there are other planets with similar conditions that it can start too. That's only carbon based life too. For all we know, there may well be other possibilities for different kinds of life to evolve.

Alien life can be explained using natural laws, ghosts are supernatural.

But there is no proof, as far as we know so far there is no planet with an atmosphere that could sustain life. Therefore as far as we know its impossible...
How do you know that on one of these planets is all the essences of every person (and dinosaur) that ever lived?....
Do you know what that would mean?
WE are the aliens.

Originally Posted by Shasown

Nah the throw away line was the only one I could be erssed taking you to task over.

Deepak Chopra? Nah read some of his work and thought he was just repackaging and modernising some older ideas, some say the epitome of pseudoscience.

I was thinking more basic laws than you incorrectly pre-supposed, but hey on you go matey.

Your mind is closed to the possibility of some sort of phenomena that people call ghosts actually existing. Multiple universes, multiple timelines, energy imprints, empathic feelings and a few other theories could explain said phenomena but hey you decided that ghosts have to be the residual spirit of a once living being hanging around on this earthly plane. And obviously that couldnt possibly happen could it?

Well you haven't taken me to task at all. I guess it's all about perspective.

As for my mind being closed on the different kind of examples you list, well you're just wrong. But let's be honest here, when people talk about ghosts, they are talking about a very specific thing.

Another problem I have, is that as of yet, there is just no way to test for such things. How can my mind be closed, when I don't know enough about theoretical physics to begin to work out a model for such things? It's one thing to call me (incorrectly) closed minded, but it's another thing all together, to be so open minded that your brain falls out.

If you have a theory for how to test for such things as empathic imprints on the universe, then be my guest.

All I know now, is that there is absolutely no reason currently, to believe that ghosts/afterlife can exist. Just like all disciplines of science - show me your hypothesis and how you plan to test it.

I'll genuinely, have absolutely no problem changing my mind should new evidence come to light, but as of now, then there isn't anything that you've written, that could even begin to tempt me, and I know you want to paint that as closed minded, but it's not. It's not closed minded for the same reason that biologists don't study intelligent design. Namely, it's untestable, unprovable, pseudo-science.

Originally Posted by kizzy

But there is no proof, as far as we know so far there is no planet with an atmosphere that could sustain life. Therefore as far as we know its impossible...
How do you know that on one of these planets is all the essences of every person (and dinosaur) that ever lived?....
Do you know what that would mean?
WE are the aliens.

That's neither half true, or good satire. We know of planets similar to earth already. Because of their size they will have different gravitational forces, but they have liquid water, and reside in a sort of "goldilocks" zone, hospitable to the kinds of life we know.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

That's neither half true, or good satire. We know of planets similar to earth already. Because of their size they will have different gravitational forces, but they have liquid water, and reside in a sort of "goldilocks" zone, hospitable to the kinds of life we know.

Can i just say here, you are not really jesus? you dont know anything on this subject...it would be impossible to know, even the most brilliant minds on this planet couldn't say with all certainty that from the knowledge they have now that is possible.
I was not aiming for satire so thats good, i can only say what I believe to be true.
Is there proof? hard evidence? samples? no... Therefore its heresay.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Can i just say here, you are not really jesus? you dont know anything on this subject...it would be impossible to know, even the most brilliant minds on this planet couldn't say with all certainty that from the knowledge they have now that is possible.
I was not aiming for satire so thats good, i can only say what I believe to be true.
Is there proof? hard evidence? samples? no... Therefore its heresay.

Wow. I think you would struggle to find a brilliant thinker alive today, who didn't think life elsewhere was a "possibility". Not all of them believe it has occurred, but you would struggle to find one that would say that it is impossible.

[MTVN]

I always find it a bit surprising tbh, how people are a lot more prepared to accept the supernatural when it comes to ghosts, but not when it comes to God, miracles etc.

Originally Posted by MTVN

I always find it a bit surprising tbh, how people are a lot more prepared to accept the supernatural when it comes to ghosts, but not when it comes to God, miracles etc.

I would guess it's because everyone knows someone who claims to have seen a ghost, or had an absolutely true reading from a psychic, it's sort of worked it's way into our psyche like that. It's part of our language.

Not many people have witnessed someone resurrected from the dead, or water turning to wine.

Even religious people have their own snobbery. If I went into church and said MTVN had performed a miracle, they wouldn't take me on face value, they'd want more proof than my word.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Wow. I think you would struggle to find a brilliant thinker alive today, who didn't think life elsewhere was a "possibility". Not all of them believe it has occurred, but you would struggle to find one that would say that it is impossible.

Yes you would be able to find one, no probs there is nowhere that we know of in out solar system that could sustain life as we know it.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

As for my mind being closed on the different kind of examples you list, well you're just wrong. But let's be honest here, when people talk about ghosts, they are talking about a very specific thing.

Another problem I have, is that as of yet, there is just no way to test for such things. How can my mind be closed, when I don't know enough about theoretical physics to begin to work out a model for such things? It's one thing to call me (incorrectly) closed minded, but it's another thing all together, to be so open minded that your brain falls out.

If you have a theory for how to test for such things as empathic imprints on the universe, then be my guest.

All I know now, is that there is absolutely no reason currently, to believe that ghosts/afterlife can exist. Just like all disciplines of science - show me your hypothesis and how you plan to test it.

I'll genuinely, have absolutely no problem changing my mind should new evidence come to light, but as of now, then there isn't anything that you've written, that could even begin to tempt me, and I know you want to paint that as closed minded, but it's not. It's not closed minded for the same reason that biologists don't study intelligent design. Namely, it's untestable, unprovable, pseudo-science.

Ah i see now what you mean, you define someone seeing some form of energy which the person viewing either rightly or wrongly defines as a "ghost". that doesnt happen.

You are open minded enough to admit that there may be something unexplained that we cant put an accurate definition to?

And yet there is no possibility at all that any of those phenomenon could possibly some form of life force, be it residual energy from some form of trauma in a persons life replaying or even a spirit of a dead person?

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

There are no such things as ghosts, and there is absolutely no reason to think that there could be.

Am glad all the wonders, mysteries and strange occurences of the modern world can be sorted into categories so easily.