[Kizzy]

My god you should see some of the stuff facebook trolls post...and pics too! thats why i left some groups in search of a 'nice' one.
There should be a whole division of police designated to these sickos, its becoming an epidemic!

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

to be honest, what will that stop. He's just one amongst many. Arresting him as a scapegoat? Have they also arrested all those that actualy make monkey noises during matches and call names? or is this one a "special" case because Muamba is loved?

having said that, don't know how bad what he said was so arrest may be justified. Not saying I am for racism of course not, just saying if you're going to arrest him make an effort to arrest the rest aswell.

I think it would be very hard to arrest a large number of people making monkey noises at a match compared to the acts of an individual. It would be a very lengthy drawn out process, costing a huge amount of money, and taking a vast amount of manpower to establish something that would most probably amount to very little. The comments seem to some to be less offensive as this was "online", or "because of a website", when compared to it being verbally outspoken, I assume. It is, in fact, much easier to prosecute in such cases, as it is there in black and white for all to see. No need for witnesses and the word of someone over somebody else. Yes, it's high profile, because it concerned Muamba, but many people sought to report this, and I applaud that.

[iRyan]

What? I didn't know you could be arrested for that...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by King_Anton

I was only really annoyed when he mentioned how funny it will be to see his "Aid infested,criminal body" as his mother cries over him. He deleted it fairly quickly, but either way you got to be ****ed in the head to say something like that.

I agree with you on that and I can understand everybody's reaction on here,but in my personal view he hasn't committed a crime by saying what his said.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

I think it's good he's been arrested, relentless trolls like this are the ones that make kids kill themselves and stuff and get away with it. It's good to make an example of him.

Yes exactly Joe. Bullying and abusing someone like that in person would not be tolerated so I don't understand why people think that it's acceptable to do it while hiding behind their computer.

[Livia]

I agree with InOne and Niamh.

The Internet has given a platform to the stupidest, shallowest people in society and allows them to spew out their bile for everyone to read, whereas before they would have had to stand in the street and say it. None of these heroes would stand up and say half the things they say online if they weren't safely behind a locked door. Amazing then that there are people who defend their right to be abusive and call it "free speech".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I agree with InOne and Niamh.

The Internet has given a platform to the stupidest, shallowest people in society and allows them to spew out their bile for everyone to read, whereas before they would have had to stand in the street and say it. None of these heroes would stand up and say half the things they say online if they weren't safely behind a locked door. Amazing then that there are people who defend their right to be abusive and call it "free speech".

Yeah, I watched a program last night about Internet trolls, one they focused on in particular was a guy who trolled the remembrance page of a teenager who'd killed himself because of Internet bullying. It was funny how this guy wasn't as eager to exercise his right to free speech when you could see his face and he had to talk to an actual person with his mouth and not his fingers.

[waterhog]

whole story is horribe hey.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, I watched a program last night about Internet trolls, one they focused on in particular was a guy who trolled the remembrance page of a teenager who'd killed himself because of Internet bullying. It was funny how this guy wasn't as eager to exercise his right to free speech when you could see his face and he had to talk to an actual person with his mouth and not his fingers.

What a hero.

I detest the BNP and I detest the Muslim protesters who burn poppies, but at least they have the courage of their convictions.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

What a hero.

I detest the BNP and I detest the Muslim protesters who burn poppies, but at least they have the courage of their convictions.

Yeah, atleast theirs come from a genuine belief in something (how ever misguided it seems) These internet trolls know what they're doing is wrong and sick so they're not voicing what they actually believe, they're posting this crap to deliberately rile and hurt people, that doesn't qualify as free speech imo, that qualifies as harassment.

I believe wholeheartedly in the virtues of free speech, and defend this guys right to post what he did. I haven't seen any of the tweets and I'm late to this thread, but if there are people out there that think like that, then I think it's good for his employers, family and the rest of society to see exactly what he is like.

I'm an advocate of free speech, but what results from that is fair game. Prospective employers will have a hard time employing this guy, and he will have a hard time being accepted by any potential co-workers. His racism will affect the rest of his life, which is a lot better than thought crimes affecting how we express ourselves.

I believe in free speech, not consequence-free speech.

[Niamh.]

That's a different way of looking at it Jesus, the problem is though, with most of these internet Trolls, they do what they do anonymously so they don't have to face any consequences for their actions in the real world.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

What a hero.

I detest the BNP and I detest the Muslim protesters who burn poppies, but at least they have the courage of their convictions.

Yet their racism and prejudice is far more dangerous and has far more consequences than this idiots tweets do, but it's more acceptable because they're honest about it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yet their racism and prejudice is far more dangerous and has far more consequences than this idiots tweets do, but it's more acceptable because they're honest about it?

I don't think she was saying it's more acceptable, she was replying to my post and the fact that the guy I was talking about was happy to exercise his free speech while being anonymous but not so much when he wasn't.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yet their racism and prejudice is far more dangerous and has far more consequences than this idiots tweets do, but it's more acceptable because they're honest about it?

I don't agree that their prejudice is far more dangerous. However prejudiced and bigoted their message, they are willing to stand up and be counted. These Internet Warriors wouldn't have the guts to say to someone's face the stuff they type. The Internet allows every moron in the world to log on and have a say without having to face up to the consequences... only now, they do have to face them.

I read on Yahoo yesterday some of the things people were saying about the Jewish kids being shot dead; contemptible, shameful things. And yet, amazingly, there will be those who will try to defend the indefensible. I can understand people feeling strongly about the right to free speech, I'm just surprised those people don't take it up as a cause to try to help those who truly need it; people who face imprisonment and even death for speaking out against a government or regime... not for someone who thinks three dead children is fair recompense for Palestine, or that a man facing death is so worthless he can be ridiculed simply because he's black.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't agree that their prejudice is far more dangerous. However prejudiced and bigoted their message, they are willing to stand up and be counted. These Internet Warriors wouldn't have the guts to say to someone's face the stuff they type. The Internet allows every moron in the world to log on and have a say without having to face up to the consequences... only now, they do have to face them.

I read on Yahoo yesterday some of the things people were saying about the Jewish kids being shot dead; contemptible, shameful things. And yet, amazingly, there will be those who will try to defend the indefensible. I can understand people feeling strongly about the right to free speech, I'm just surprised those people don't take it up as a cause to try to help those who truly need it; people who face imprisonment and even death for speaking out against a government or regime... not for someone who thinks three dead children is fair recompense for Palestine, or that a man facing death is so worthless he can be ridiculed simply because he's black.

I know that there are some people who post sick stuff on the internet, and yes it is cowardly, but more often than not they are just idiots who do it to get a kick out of doing/saying something controversial. What the BNP do is to try and get racism actually into the mainstream of public and political life, and make it "respectable", they stir up racial hatred in a way that internet trolling can't. Plus it's been shown that in areas where the BNP have a strong foothold racial vioence and tension has increased, and we know all too well what the consequences of Isamic extremism can be if people are taken in by the public preaching they do.

Proper internet trolling where people anonymousy go on RIP ages and the like is a different matter because that could well be counted as harrasment, but this guy wasn't doing that, he was just being an idiot and thinking he was funny probaby. It's sick yes but I don't see it as an arrestabe offence and i still don't see where the line is supposedly drawn with free speech, and who it is who gets the right to declare what is accetabe and what isnt.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I know that there are some people who post sick stuff on the internet, and yes it is cowardly, but more often than not they are just idiots who do it to get a kick out of doing/saying something controversial. What the BNP do is to try and get racism actually into the mainstream of public and political life, and make it "respectable", they stir up racial hatred in a way that internet trolling can't. Plus it's been shown that in areas where the BNP have a strong foothold racial vioence and tension has increased, and we know all too well what the consequences of Isamic extremism can be if people are taken in by the public preaching they do.

Proper internet trolling where people anonymousy go on RIP ages and the like is a different matter because that could well be counted as harrasment, but this guy wasn't doing that, he was just being an idiot and thinking he was funny probaby. It's sick yes but I don't see it as an arrestabe offence and i still don't see where the line is supposedly drawn with free speech, and who it is who gets the right to declare what is accetabe and what isnt.

Just because it's difficult to know where to draw the line, doesn't mean that there shouldn't BE a line. And obviously someone has decided where the line has been drawn or this bloke wouldn't have been arrested.

I doubt that the BNP will ever be seen by anyone who isn't a moron, as anything other than a bunch of uneducated bigots who have stolen my flag. People are not stupid, most people are decent and honest and know how to do the right thing. Decent people threw Mosely and his brown shirts out of Cable Street in the 1930s, and decent people will do it again to the BNP, I have every confidence. And in the meantime, decent people should believe that the dregs of society who insult people on the Internet, or anywhere else, are answerable for it in a court of law.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just because it's difficult to know where to draw the line, doesn't mean that there shouldn't BE a line. And obviously someone has decided where the line has been drawn or this bloke wouldn't have been arrested.

I doubt that the BNP will ever be seen by anyone who isn't a moron, as anything other than a bunch of uneducated bigots who have stolen my flag. People are not stupid, most people are decent and honest and know how to do the right thing. Decent people threw Mosely and his brown shirts out of Cable Street in the 1930s, and decent people will do it again to the BNP, I have every confidence. And in the meantime, decent people should believe that the dregs of society who insult people on the Internet, or anywhere else, are answerable for it in a court of law.

Yes but my point is that I don't think there can be a universal "line" because it's such a subjective area, and over time and across the word people have different views as to what is acceptable and what is not, what is morally correct and what isn't. And besides the immoral and the illegal are two very different things. I'm on a crap keyboard atm so can't really type very easily but I basically believe in the harm principle when it comes to this, I think the only time there should be state intervention is if it's necessary to prevent harm to others, not just if an idiot on twitter posts something considered offensive

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yes but my point is that I don't think there can be a universal "line" because it's such a subjective area, and over time and across the word people have different views as to what is acceptable and what is not, what is morally correct and what isn't. And besides the immoral and the illegal are two very different things. I'm on a crap keyboard atm so can't really type very easily but I basically believe in the harm principle when it comes to this, I think the only time there should be state intervention is if it's necessary to prevent harm to others, not just if an idiot on twitter posts something considered offensive

I do get where you're coming from, and I think a lot of what I believe does overlap with what you believe. I agree that a universal line would be difficult to agree, but as a country, I'm happy to see that this bloke's actions were a toe over our line, and there he is in the Stripey Hole as a consequence. Yes there is a difference between the immoral and the illegal, but many times the two coincide, and so they should.

The Internet is currently in its infancy, and it's like the bloody Wild West. There are all kinds of outlaws and misfits pretty much doing and saying what they like and generally shooting up the place, metaphorically. Decent people have had to accept the poor behaviour of a handful up until now... but finally the legal system has got its act together and the sheriff has rolled into Dodge, and not a moment too soon.

[Ammi]

..but what if those offensive comments lead to suicide..which in some cases they have..I know they haven't directly 'incited' anything but they have been harmful....and it's too late afterwards for the prevention. I agree it's subjective and what is acceptable to some..isn't to others.. and it is difficult to draw a line. It's a tricky one because I agree with Livia..just because it would be difficult to know where the line is doesn't mean there shouldn't be one...but...I can't see that there could be a 'universal' line...I don't see how that could possibly work.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do get where you're coming from, and I think a lot of what I believe does overlap with what you believe. I agree that a universal line would be difficult to agree, but as a country, I'm happy to see that this bloke's actions were a toe over our line, and there he is in the Stripey Hole as a consequence. Yes there is a difference between the immoral and the illegal, but many times the two coincide, and so they should.

The Internet is currently in its infancy, and it's like the bloody Wild West. There are all kinds of outlaws and misfits pretty much doing and saying what they like and generally shooting up the place, metaphorically. Decent people have had to accept the poor behaviour of a handful up until now... but finally the legal system has got its act together and the sheriff has rolled into Dodge, and not a moment too soon.

I strongly agree with this. Atm because it's such a new thing, people are getting away with stuff that they would never get away with in the real world and that needs to be addressed, and thankfully, as with this case, that seems to be happening now.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do get where you're coming from, and I think a lot of what I believe does overlap with what you believe. I agree that a universal line would be difficult to agree, but as a country, I'm happy to see that this bloke's actions were a toe over our line, and there he is in the Stripey Hole as a consequence. Yes there is a difference between the immoral and the illegal, but many times the two coincide, and so they should.

The Internet is currently in its infancy, and it's like the bloody Wild West. There are all kinds of outlaws and misfits pretty much doing and saying what they like and generally shooting up the place, metaphorically. Decent people have had to accept the poor behaviour of a handful up until now... but finally the legal system has got its act together and the sheriff has rolled into Dodge, and not a moment too soon.

Yeah I agree about the internet being in its infancy and it does complicate things further. I'm not entirely sure how free speech applies to it and at what point the authorities come in, seeing as it's in the power of the likes of Facebook to be able to block and deal with matters like trolling themselves, and they do do it a lot of the time. The internet definitely does bring whole new meaning to the debate, but still I'm quite uncomfortable with any attempt to criminalise someone for their words, no matter how disgusting they seem to us

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but what if those offensive comments lead to suicide..which in some cases they have..I know they haven't directly 'incited' anything but they have been harmful....and it's too late afterwards for the prevention. I agree it's subjective and what is acceptable to some..isn't to others.. and it is difficult to draw a line. It's a tricky one because I agree with Livia..just because it would be difficult to know where the line is doesn't mean there shouldn't be one...but...I can't see that there could be a 'universal' line...I don't see how that could possibly work.

I wasnt mainly talking about proper internet trolling on RIP pages and the like, that's a different matter because I think it would violate the "harm principle" and count as harassment. But I don't think the same applies to someone just posting sick jokes/comments on their own Twitter about a celebrity or figure in the public eye

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't agree that their prejudice is far more dangerous. However prejudiced and bigoted their message, they are willing to stand up and be counted. These Internet Warriors wouldn't have the guts to say to someone's face the stuff they type. The Internet allows every moron in the world to log on and have a say without having to face up to the consequences... only now, they do have to face them.

I read on Yahoo yesterday some of the things people were saying about the Jewish kids being shot dead; contemptible, shameful things. And yet, amazingly, there will be those who will try to defend the indefensible. I can understand people feeling strongly about the right to free speech, I'm just surprised those people don't take it up as a cause to try to help those who truly need it; people who face imprisonment and even death for speaking out against a government or regime... not for someone who thinks three dead children is fair recompense for Palestine, or that a man facing death is so worthless he can be ridiculed simply because he's black.

I believe they are way way more dangerous...
Trolling and tweeting although a vile pastime and potentially hurtful to the target and or families is what it is.... one vile person behind a keyboard.
Organisations such as the BNP are MANY ignorant people whos warped views and misguided information influence many...Even highly educated people.
The far right influence of Anders Brievik,the killer of many innocent youths in Norway was highlighted in the C4 documentary regarding the EDL.
Im all for standing up and being counted, but you have to be very careful what you are standing up for...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...iks-ideas.html

[James]

There has to be some limits on freedom-of-speech otherwise things like bullying and defamation would be tolerated.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by James

There has to be some limits on freedom-of-speech otherwise things like bullying and defamation would be tolerated.

Tbf bullying is making somebody's life a living hell which is worse than some sick jokes on Twitter,trust me I know as i've suffered some bullying myself,but you don't see them being arrested.

I believe this guy is an ignorant moron,but that doesn't mean he should be arrested.