[InOne]

Originally Posted by Apple202

So you can't give us an answer?

Looks like were right, yet again

I asked first If you were polite you'd give me an answer.

[CallumJoshuaSturt]

Kate

[dathadiguy]

I totally agree Aaron was a controversial, very unusual winner, and as you say who would spend money on someone vaguely entertaining?

The only thing I can remember about Luke A was the BMI comment which was spot on lol. Deana was the prominent HM throughout the series, everything she did was scrutinised inside and outside the house, it seemed everything she did was either the best thing ever or the worse thing ever, there was no middled ground, in hindsight that might have been her downfall. How Deana's handled herself in situations was incredible considering she was fighting those battles on her own whilst the majority ganged up on her. I still think now she had no friends in that house, Adam & Luke A seemed to put up with her because they needed her vote, and for her to come third after all that is a bit of an anti-climax for me. Her winning would have too perfect, and would have stood out as the best moment in BB history IMO.

[armand.kay]

kate Lawler .

[alex_front2]

The public loves weak victim-y women. I did like Lauren, yes she was bullied by Caz Ash Sara and Becky but she was also a professional victim 'none of the girls like me, Adam' in week 2 when Lydia and Deana were trying to befriend her and Victoria had said how much she liked Lauren (witness how well they get on now).

The only strong women this year were Victoria, Deana and Lydia. The public love sweet compliant females like Rachel Rice, Kate Lawler and Sophie Reade. Although Josie wasn't all sweetness and light she wasn't exactly a strong woman either (compare her to Charley BB8, Makosi or Ashleyne) but benefited from a John James showmance.
The public absolutely loved Sara this year (but didn't get votes) as she was sweet enough despite her tedious attempts to do feisty and opinionated. Except she never had the vagina to stand up to Conor. And left the WR for vanity reasons.

Nadia BB5 winner was a strong woman. But her win WAS imo down to the trans story no doubt about it. Had she had been cis-gendered female - ie born with female body - she would have been regarded as a pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew a la Charley BB8, the trans back-story secret gave her a 'vulnerability' and a narrative the public could get involved in and invest in.

However, Nadia was strong and she stood her ground on several occasions against the jungle cats in fact on fight-night she squared up to Jason and they almost got into a punch up (the only other women to vaguely attempted to do this have been Emma from same series, Charley BB8, Alex BB9). However, by the time Nadia competed in Ultimate BB a few years back her trans history was now well known and no longer a defining issue, she would be judged on her persona and her pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew persona (strong female type) was disliked as much as it would be for any women.

Even former chum Brian D distanced himself from her in UBB. Nadia fell from grace and got massive boos. Imo that was the ultimate acceptance, being treated like any strong female in that house! Even Makosi got a better reception in UBB!!!

[dathadiguy]

Nadia was a bit of a lunatic and she along with the other one (can't remember her name) started fight night. I agree her back-story helped her massively, I remember at the time wanting her to win for no other reason than because of that. In retrospect I think Victor should have won that series.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by dathadiguy

I totally agree Aaron was a controversial, very unusual winner, and as you say who would spend money on someone vaguely entertaining?

Aaron was fantastic, in BB terms. He was a fan of the show, who had tried to get in for years and he won. But he did so in a completely random and inexplicable way. Completely controversial.

Originally Posted by dathadiguy

The only thing I can remember about Luke A was the BMI comment which was spot on lol. Deana was the prominent HM throughout the series, everything she did was scrutinised inside and outside the house, it seemed everything she did was either the best thing ever or the worse thing ever, there was no middled ground, in hindsight that might have been her downfall. How Deana's handled herself in situations was incredible considering she was fighting those battles on her own whilst the majority ganged up on her. I still think now she had no friends in that house, Adam & Luke A seemed to put up with her because they needed her vote, and for her to come third after all that is a bit of an anti-climax for me. Her winning would have too perfect, and would have stood out as the best moment in BB history IMO.

Deana was the most prominent HM of the 2012 series. A large part of the show seemed to evolve around what she was doing/saying. However I don't think she was the most controversial and I believe that this is what hurt her with the final votes.

Luke A had a story. A personal tale of difficulties that she, now he, has overcome. Add in that he was a nice lad, that did try to build bridges, that had an occasional fight, and a winner is born.

Deana on the other hand has got a fairly easy life. Wealthy living puts people off. She acted like a lady for most of it and stood her when she needed too. And while she did try and talk to Conor, she didn't gut him. She could have won, had she turned on that "fire" just a week earlier.

[swinearefine]

[Jords]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

The public loves weak victim-y women. I did like Lauren, yes she was bullied by Caz Ash Sara and Becky but she was also a professional victim 'none of the girls like me, Adam' in week 2 when Lydia and Deana were trying to befriend her and Victoria had said how much she liked Lauren (witness how well they get on now).

The only strong women this year were Victoria, Deana and Lydia. The public love sweet compliant females like Rachel Rice, Kate Lawler and Sophie Reade. Although Josie wasn't all sweetness and light she wasn't exactly a strong woman either (compare her to Charley BB8, Makosi or Ashleyne) but benefited from a John James showmance.
The public absolutely loved Sara this year (but didn't get votes) as she was sweet enough despite her tedious attempts to do feisty and opinionated. Except she never had the vagina to stand up to Conor. And left the WR for vanity reasons.

Nadia BB5 winner was a strong woman. But her win WAS imo down to the trans story no doubt about it. Had she had been cis-gendered female - ie born with female body - she would have been regarded as a pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew a la Charley BB8, the trans back-story secret gave her a 'vulnerability' and a narrative the public could get involved in and invest in.

However, Nadia was strong and she stood her ground on several occasions against the jungle cats in fact on fight-night she squared up to Jason and they almost got into a punch up (the only other women to vaguely attempted to do this have been Emma from same series, Charley BB8, Alex BB9). However, by the time Nadia competed in Ultimate BB a few years back her trans history was now well known and no longer a defining issue, she would be judged on her persona and her pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew persona (strong female type) was disliked as much as it would be for any women.

Even former chum Brian D distanced himself from her in UBB. Nadia fell from grace and got massive boos. Imo that was the ultimate acceptance, being treated like any strong female in that house! Even Makosi got a better reception in UBB!!!

Thats a well written post!

[alex_front2]

Dathadiguy: yep.

I think the 'other lunatic' you mean 'bed-sit' Emma who was ejected?

For a long time Victor was the best HM imo in BB5 (articulate, smart, cheeky, game-playingly brilliant, working LF late at night keeping us entertained with his grimy jungle cat chats, crawling on floor singing crap rnb etc) but he came undone when he picked on Shell in wedding task. The sight of him making blond haired blue eyed middle class nice girl cry with mascara running down her cheeks killed his chances. If this had not have happened he would have actually beaten Nadia, or she would have very narrowly won imo.

[swinearefine]

Originally Posted by dathadiguy

Nadia was a bit of a lunatic and she along with the other one (can't remember her name) started fight night. I agree her back-story helped her massively, I remember at the time wanting her to win for no other reason than because of that. In retrospect I think Victor should have won that series.

Nadia is the greatest winner of all time. Victor is unbelievably overrated. He was just a fat, bald man desperate to show how "bad" he was. Yet he got completely owned by Shell. He thought he was a great game-player, but he only survived three rounds of nominations.. He was a good housemate, but definitely didn't deserve to win over the goddess Nadia.

[Munchkins]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

The public loves weak victim-y women. I did like Lauren, yes she was bullied by Caz Ash Sara and Becky but she was also a professional victim 'none of the girls like me, Adam' in week 2 when Lydia and Deana were trying to befriend her and Victoria had said how much she liked Lauren (witness how well they get on now).

The only strong women this year were Victoria, Deana and Lydia. The public love sweet compliant females like Rachel Rice, Kate Lawler and Sophie Reade. Although Josie wasn't all sweetness and light she wasn't exactly a strong woman either (compare her to Charley BB8, Makosi or Ashleyne) but benefited from a John James showmance.
The public absolutely loved Sara this year (but didn't get votes) as she was sweet enough despite her tedious attempts to do feisty and opinionated. Except she never had the vagina to stand up to Conor. And left the WR for vanity reasons.

Nadia BB5 winner was a strong woman. But her win WAS imo down to the trans story no doubt about it. Had she had been cis-gendered female - ie born with female body - she would have been regarded as a pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew a la Charley BB8, the trans back-story secret gave her a 'vulnerability' and a narrative the public could get involved in and invest in.

However, Nadia was strong and she stood her ground on several occasions against the jungle cats in fact on fight-night she squared up to Jason and they almost got into a punch up (the only other women to vaguely attempted to do this have been Emma from same series, Charley BB8, Alex BB9). However, by the time Nadia competed in Ultimate BB a few years back her trans history was now well known and no longer a defining issue, she would be judged on her persona and her pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew persona (strong female type) was disliked as much as it would be for any women.

Even former chum Brian D distanced himself from her in UBB. Nadia fell from grace and got massive boos. Imo that was the ultimate acceptance, being treated like any strong female in that house! Even Makosi got a better reception in UBB!!!

Wow this is a wonderful post, and i whole-heartedly agree with your points!

[thesheriff443]

well, he comes trouble!
luke was born a female and he won so there is your answer.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by swinearefine

Nadia is the greatest winner of all time. Victor is unbelievably overrated. He was just a fat, bald man desperate to show how "bad" he was. Yet he got completely owned by Shell. He thought he was a great game-player, but he only survived three rounds of nominations.. He was a good housemate, but definitely didn't deserve to win over the goddess Nadia.

How can you say Victor was overrated when he didn't make it to final (so underrated) and Nadia and won. When her trans acceptance issue was no longer an issue she was 'owned' by Ulrika 'unlikeable' Johnson in UBB. Even former BB chum Brian D craftily distanced himself from her and Nadia was exposed as the overrated HM that she actually was who relied on 'trans acceptance route'. Don't get me wrong, I voted for her to win as she was a decent HM, but BB5 EVERY HM was brilliant and I also voted to stop Jason winning. Another reason why Victor is better than Nadia is because now that we are 8 year on from BB5, Victor is generally regarded as a legend, not Nadia (certainly UBB undid her popularity).

Most underrated HM of all time imo - Ahmed.

[dathadiguy]

Originally Posted by swinearefine

Nadia is the greatest winner of all time. Victor is unbelievably overrated. He was just a fat, bald man desperate to show how "bad" he was. Yet he got completely owned by Shell. He thought he was a great game-player, but he only survived three rounds of nominations.. He was a good housemate, but definitely didn't deserve to win over the goddess Nadia.

Don't think he quite got owned by Shell, I remember her screaming in his face, going mad & then running off & crying like he did something to her.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Nadia BB5 winner was a strong woman. But her win WAS imo down to the trans story no doubt about it. Had she had been cis-gendered female - ie born with female body - she would have been regarded as a pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew a la Charley BB8, the trans back-story secret gave her a 'vulnerability' and a narrative the public could get involved in and invest in.

However, Nadia was strong and she stood her ground on several occasions against the jungle cats in fact on fight-night she squared up to Jason and they almost got into a punch up (the only other women to vaguely attempted to do this have been Emma from same series, Charley BB8, Alex BB9). However, by the time Nadia competed in Ultimate BB a few years back her trans history was now well known and no longer a defining issue, she would be judged on her persona and her pugnacious slightly camp shrieky annoying aggressive shrew persona (strong female type) was disliked as much as it would be for any women.

Nadia was a bully, with a massive chip on her shoulder, convinced that the world owed her something. I couldn't stand her in her winning year and I was glad when she was called on it the second time round.

I remember watching alot of the live feed that first year and the constant baiting, by Nadia's crew, at Jason and Victor was shocking. However the HL rarely showed it.

But she played that story, her history, to a tee and won despite her shocking personality.

Comparing her to Luke A, someone in a similar situation, and they have no common ground. Luke A is the perfect role model for people who have gender issues/problems.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by dathadiguy

In retrospect I think Victor should have won that series.

Victor was the man!

He had a real chance of winning that year, but for one argument with Shell. But even he knew that in his exit interview.

[swinearefine]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

How can you say Victor was overrated when he didn't make it to final (so underrated) and Nadia and won. When her trans acceptance issue was no longer an issue she was 'owned' by Ulrika 'unlikeable' Johnson in UBB. Even former BB chum Brian D craftily distanced himself from her and Nadia was exposed as the overrated HM that she actually was who relied on 'trans acceptance route'. Don't get me wrong, I voted for her to win as she was a decent HM, but BB5 EVERY HM was brilliant and I also voted to stop Jason winning. Another reason why Victor is better than Nadia is because now that we are 8 year on from BB5, Victor is generally regarded as a legend, not Nadia (certainly UBB undid her popularity).

Most underrated HM of all time imo - Ahmed.

I agree Nadia only won because she was a transsexual, but that doesn't mean she didn't deserve to win for a plethora of other reasons. She was hilarious and fiery and argumentative, and even if that's not why the public voted for her to win, that's why she deserved to win. In UBB she was treated like any other strong, argumentative woman and that is why she was evicted and booed.

[dathadiguy]

Originally Posted by kefln

Nadia was a bully, with a massive chip on her shoulder, convinced that the world owed her something. I couldn't stand her in her winning year and I was glad when she was called on it the second time round.

I remember watching alot of the live feed that first year and the constant baiting, by Nadia's crew, at Jason and Victor was shocking. However the HL rarely showed it.

But she played that story, her history, to a tee and won despite her shocking personality.

Comparing her to Luke A, someone in a similar situation, and they have no common ground. Luke A is the perfect role model for people who have gender issues/problems.

Yes but it shows how far having a back-story will get you. This thread has turned into more of a debate about whether a back-story will get you further than having a strong personality.

[alex_front2]

Luke A actually said that he hated Nadia. He's a massive fan of show and said that when he realised a female transgendered person was appearing on show he was excited but he watched LF and went off her.

If LukeA and Nadia were both in BB5 neither would win as the trans story would be cancelling each other out and ultimately irrelevant.

This is why when you have someone like BB7 Pete Bennett wth tourettes, BB9 Mikey with blindness or BB11 Steve with his war hero leg disfigurement you need a nother person in there with a comparable condition so it's no longer neccessarily some USP.

[swinearefine]

Originally Posted by dathadiguy

Don't think he quite got owned by Shell, I remember her screaming in his face, going mad & then running off & crying like he did something to her.

"Victor, you're a cvnt but I'm dancing with you."

Best line in BB history.

[alex_front2]

Having a back story is a really good get out of jail clause. It benefited Nadia 100%. Nadia was as aggressive as Alex BB9. Guess who got kicked out.

[chuff me dizzy]

Kate won ,she was a strong woman ,but also likable ,you will win nothing being nasty

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Kate won ,she was a strong woman ,but also likable ,you will win nothing being nasty

For me Kate was not strong. Very likeable very funny but definitely not strong. In her year strong women imo were Alison, Adele, and Jade, yea Jade. BB9 Alex, Ashleyne and Makosi would laugh at Kate being seen as a strong woman!

Kate cried too much and was looking to Spencer Johnny and PJ to 'save and protect her' when Alex was horrid to her. Strong women NEVER look to men to protect and help them. They take the men on themselves. Kate was a less annoying less needy and girlie version of fake tomboy Lauren

[Kizzy]

I like those who are nice but are not 'yesmen' they are not influnced by others and know their own minds.
Not afraid to defend themselves either.
Deana is a great example.