[Livia]

I can see that there would be a worry that vulnerable people may be coerced into it for the convenience of others, but so long as there are proper checks and procedures I think it's only right that someone of sound mind should be able to choose their own destiny.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

I can see that there would be a worry that vulnerable people may be coerced into it for the convenience of others, but so long as there are proper checks and procedures I think it's only right that someone of sound mind should be able to choose their own destiny.

we cant trust them with files and paperwork, or taxes or regulations, what makes you think we could trust them with allowing suicides?

the whole euthanasia issue is a red herring. far more energy and attention needs to be drawn to improving the endless problems in the nhs, such as patients waiting too long for crucial someties life saving operations, too many ulti million pound scanners lying unused for years, which also creates bed blocking, unnecessary extra courses of medication and more work for nurses, cleaners, doctors, these people need to be scanned much much sooner...also other majors issues around our hospitals having over 50 times more infections that swedish hospitals and it some extree cases patients have effectively starving to death or dying of thirst in our wards

we do have a form of euthanasia already as the hospitals use the DNR , do not rescuscitate, when a patient becomes so weak , frail and ill.

we need to change the narrative on this sore subject.

Im sympathetic for those in excruciating agony. None of us know what that would feel like. But personally Im more concerned with helping to save lives, improve lives, reduce all the pain , reduce waiting lists, especially for people to get scanned for cancer, for kidney problems, for blood clots and so on.

once they get scanned earlier, they can immediately be put on the correct medication. without these scans, patients can go months on the wrong medication and can die prematurely.

it will cost more money to man these scanners. but it costs millions to build them and train the staff to use them. to then only use them a few hours a week is scandalous. the money it costs to operate them far more hours, would be saved in the long run, with more healthy people, treated earlier and not bed blocking taking endless medication whilst awaiting their scans

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by the truth

we cant trust them with files and paperwork, or taxes or regulations, what makes you think we could trust them with allowing suicides?

the whole euthanasia issue is a red herring. far more energy and attention needs to be drawn to improving the endless problems in the nhs, such as patients waiting too long for crucial someties life saving operations, too many ulti million pound scanners lying unused for years, which also creates bed blocking, unnecessary extra courses of medication and more work for nurses, cleaners, doctors, these people need to be scanned much much sooner...also other majors issues around our hospitals having over 50 times more infections that swedish hospitals and it some extree cases patients have effectively starving to death or dying of thirst in our wards

we do have a form of euthanasia already as the hospitals use the DNR , do not rescuscitate, when a patient becomes so weak , frail and ill.

we need to change the narrative on this sore subject.

Im sympathetic for those in excruciating agony. None of us know what that would feel like. But personally Im more concerned with helping to save lives, improve lives, reduce all the pain , reduce waiting lists, especially for people to get scanned for cancer, for kidney problems, for blood clots and so on.

once they get scanned earlier, they can immediately be put on the correct medication. without these scans, patients can go months on the wrong medication and can die prematurely.

it will cost more money to man these scanners. but it costs millions to build them and train the staff to use them. to then only use them a few hours a week is scandalous. the money it costs to operate them far more hours, would be saved in the long run, with more healthy people, treated earlier and not bed blocking taking endless medication whilst awaiting their scans

You're missing the point though. Even if they can get better (which in more cases than not isn't even on the cards), what makes you think that they would want to get better? Maybe they're tired of life and all and want to go out in a dignified fashion, hmm?

Let them do what they want. That's not for you to decide.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

You're missing the point though. Even if they can get better (which in more cases than not isn't even on the cards), what makes you think that they would want to get better? Maybe they're tired of life and all and want to go out in a dignified fashion, hmm?

Let them do what they want. That's not for you to decide.

Its not for you to decide that thousands of frail sick confused vulnerable people may die at the hands of an incompetent, or abusive, or corrupt member of staff or family member. My concern is for the innocent victims of such a law. People already murder for money the world over, all we are doing is making it easier for them. people also die in hospitals from neglect, all we are doing is making it easier to cover these failures up.

You also state, getting better isnt on the cards, so kill them off? dont give recovery a chance>? wheres theres life theres hope. Many thousands of people have lived for years way beyond their doctors predictions and expectations. this demand for making it easier to kill yourself is based wholly on pessimism and totally ignores the fact thousands probably millions are not receiving the medical treatment they need and deserve in the UK. I prefer to look at more optimistic ways of improving life, sustaining life and reducing pain.


Its a similar argument preventing capital punishment in the UK, too many innocent people may suffer as a result of such a law. Its too late once an innocent person has died through negligence or deliberate foul play.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by the truth

Its not for you to decide that thousands of frail sick confused vulnerable people may die at the hands of an incompetent, or abusive, or corrupt member of staff or family member. My concern is for the innocent victims of such a law. People already murder for money the world over, all we are doing is making it easier for them. people also die in hospitals from neglect, all we are doing is making it easier to cover these failures up.

You also state, getting better isnt on the cards, so kill them off? dont give recovery a chance>? wheres theres life theres hope. Many thousands of people have lived for years way beyond their doctors predictions and expectations. this demand for making it easier to kill yourself is based wholly on pessimism and totally ignores the fact thousands probably millions are not receiving the medical treatment they need and deserve in the UK. I prefer to look at more optimistic ways of improving life, sustaining life and reducing pain.


Its a similar argument preventing capital punishment in the UK, too many innocent people may suffer as a result of such a law. Its too late once an innocent person has died through negligence or deliberate foul play.

Why should they want to recover, though? If they were really in that much pain why not let them do what they want?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

Why should they want to recover, though? If they were really in that much pain why not let them do what they want?

some may want to recover yet be ignored, some will be too confused or sick and frail to even speak and explain if they want to live and go home. people with dementia say they want to die 50 times a d\ay, then the next day theyre happy as larry, eating and chatting....the human mind and body is unbelievably complex, then throw in old age and medication and it becomes almost impossible to decipher what exactly people really mean... if just 1 innocent person dies as a result of this law legalising euthanasia, then it wouldnt be worth it. sadly lots of frail innocent people would die unnecessarily. we need to work on hospices, we need to study the dnr programme closer, we also need to radically improve our entire nhs. the improvements are not just down to money, its down to structure, management, prioritising the use of scanners and tests and its about the moral code of the nhs and every single person who works within in. as a society its also about us respecting the nhs too

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by the truth

some may want to recover yet be ignored, some will be too confused or sick and frail to even speak and explain if they want to live and go home. people with dementia say they want to die 50 times a d\ay, then the next day theyre happy as larry, eating and chatting....the human mind and body is unbelievably complex, then throw in old age and medication and it becomes almost impossible to decipher what exactly people really mean... if just 1 innocent person dies as a result of this law legalising euthanasia, then it wouldnt be worth it. sadly lots of frail innocent people would die unnecessarily. we need to work on hospices, we need to study the dnr programme closer, we also need to radically improve our entire nhs. the improvements are not just down to money, its down to structure, management, prioritising the use of scanners and tests and its about the moral code of the nhs and every single person who works within in. as a society its also about us respecting the nhs too

Paragraphs...

And what are you even basing all this on? How on earth does 'some may want to recover yet to be ignored' bare any contextual relationship to the argument at hand?

We're on about people who actually choose to do. Go on. You humour me in a desperate attempt to justify your ridiculous views.

And use capitals. I feel like getting eye surgery every time I read one of your posts.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

we cant trust them with files and paperwork, or taxes or regulations, what makes you think we could trust them with allowing suicides?

the whole euthanasia issue is a red herring. far more energy and attention needs to be drawn to improving the endless problems in the nhs, such as patients waiting too long for crucial someties life saving operations, too many ulti million pound scanners lying unused for years, which also creates bed blocking, unnecessary extra courses of medication and more work for nurses, cleaners, doctors, these people need to be scanned much much sooner...also other majors issues around our hospitals having over 50 times more infections that swedish hospitals and it some extree cases patients have effectively starving to death or dying of thirst in our wards

we do have a form of euthanasia already as the hospitals use the DNR , do not rescuscitate, when a patient becomes so weak , frail and ill.

we need to change the narrative on this sore subject.

Im sympathetic for those in excruciating agony. None of us know what that would feel like. But personally Im more concerned with helping to save lives, improve lives, reduce all the pain , reduce waiting lists, especially for people to get scanned for cancer, for kidney problems, for blood clots and so on.

once they get scanned earlier, they can immediately be put on the correct medication. without these scans, patients can go months on the wrong medication and can die prematurely.

it will cost more money to man these scanners. but it costs millions to build them and train the staff to use them. to then only use them a few hours a week is scandalous. the money it costs to operate them far more hours, would be saved in the long run, with more healthy people, treated earlier and not bed blocking taking endless medication whilst awaiting their scans

I asked you to stop quoting my posts. I have nothing to say to you.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

I asked you to stop quoting my posts. I have nothing to say to you.

thats because youve lost the argument