[arista]

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

How can it be a wasted vote if their ministers are sitting in the cabinet?...

[arista]

Yes Kizzy but not Full Power
like he thought.


So Education you Pay.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Kizzy but not Full Power
like he thought.


So Education you Pay.

So? If it stops the destruction of the country then yes some policies fall by the wayside...It's for the greater good.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

I know that and agree they couldn't have.
It was my first vote in a General election, I could have never voted for Labour in 2010,no way.
I liked the Conservatives plan for the reduction of the deficit but was deeply suspicious as to them on the NHS, knowing a good few people who really relied on the NHS.
I was totally against the raising by at least doubling tuition fees so I couldn't bring myself to vote Conservative either.

The Lib Dems hounded students where I was, stating if the Conservatives got an overall majority,they would at least double tuition fees, that they would increase VAT, also make damaging cuts in the first year that would threaten any economic recovery and maybe take the UK back into recession.

Those 3 issues coupled with the promise and even signed pledge on one of them, that in no circumstances would Lib Dem MP's ever support those measures in Parliament won them my vote.
It was clear all through the election campaign from the polls that no party was likely to get any kind of working overall majority so I put my trust and faith in the Lib Dems to deliver those gurantees and promises.
I and some other students even had a face to face meeting with a Lib Dem MP who re-inforced those promises, yet that MP supported when the polices came to the the vote in Parliament,the cuts in the first year,the raising of tuition fees, not by doubling them but by trebling them and also the VAT increase.

The coalition has had it's chance for me,I really have no idea where politics goes from here, over 30 years we had firstly strong,(in the sense of good overall majorities),Conservative Govt for 18 years, we then had 13 unbroken years of strong Labour Govt. Both made massive errors and failed to set up the stability of good and fair Govt for all the Nation.

We now come to and have had a Coalition Govt that is failing on near all it set out to do.
Too many costly reforms, virtually no compassion to the weakest in society,pushing policies out, then having to re-think as to them again and further modifying them as opposition looms against them.
We are in a double dip recession that could last longer than the original one,yet all we get from the 2 parties in the Coalition is no change needed.

This is all likely going to see a Labour Govt with a majority win the next elction again, the Conservatives in my view, have no way of getting more than 36% of the votes in an election, the Lib Dems will be lucky to get 15%.they have certainly lost for a good while, at least 8% of the people who voted for them in 2010.
Students won't trust the Conservatives after the trebling of the fees, neither will they trust the Lib Dems for their long list of broken promises.

You are right though, I did waste my vote in 2010 on the Lib Dems, I know absolutely loads of others who feel the same.
Obviously,I will wait until the next election to see what are the results of these policies and reforms,the one for sure I will not do is vote for the Lib Dems again.
I am not a party political person, I see the good and bad in all parties,I believe in consensus politics and there are MPs in all parties that are consensus politicians,that is what I hoped for from this Coalition but they have been worse than the previous Conservative then Labour Govts of the last 30+ years put together,in my opinion anyway.

Oh gosh, just seen the length of this post, I better stop now.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

If everyone thought like that then no party would ever get a vote except for conservatives or labour. I actually thought libdems stood the best chance in a long time at the last election...yes I still didnt expect them to get a big enough vote to hold sole power, but it could have happened if everyone who could vote...did. One day it might happen that another party gets in, and I hope it does, but it will never happen while people think that no-one else has a chance at all so dont bother voting for them.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If everyone thought like that then no party would ever get a vote except for conservatives or labour. I actually thought libdems stood the best chance in a long time at the last election...yes I still didnt expect them to get a big enough vote to hold sole power, but it could have happened if everyone who could vote...did. One day it might happen that another party gets in, and I hope it does, but it will never happen while people think that no-one else has a chance at all so dont bother voting for them.

Vicky no enough people are Voting
so LibDems can only be in a joint deal.

The current voting style
means they can not get enough to take full power.


And if you were watching the TV debates
Nick did very well
so I do not blame you Vicky.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If everyone thought like that then no party would ever get a vote except for conservatives or labour. I actually thought libdems stood the best chance in a long time at the last election...yes I still didnt expect them to get a big enough vote to hold sole power, but it could have happened if everyone who could vote...did. One day it might happen that another party gets in, and I hope it does, but it will never happen while people think that no-one else has a chance at all so dont bother voting for them.

Spot on vicky, if everyone shuffled allong with the crowd listening to the same worn phrases churned out by the same two parties for millenia how would anything ever change?

[arista]

But Kizzy the Voting System has Not Changed.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

But Kizzy the Voting System has Not Changed.

A really strong point and in my opinion the Lib Dems are going to find themselves back to pre-alliance in 1983 numbers as to having MPs after the next election.
The argument for a change in the voting system will be likely laid aside for some time,decades probably by all others.

Something else the Lib Dems under Clegg could not deliver, even with the best chance ever of insisting it was part of the Coalition agreement.
They should have insisted on AV being brought in anyway and then having a referendum on other forms of PR before or on the same day as the next general election.
After this Coalition, few will listen to the Lib Dems now as to this issue in my view.

The Conservatives now know how to play the Coalition game, had they had just a few more seats,then with the DUP, they likely would not have needed the Lib Dems at all.
Even if Labour miss out on an overall majority next time too, parties like Plaid Cymru,the SDLP in Northern Ireland and likely even the SNP, would not be likely to support a Conservative Govt but could make life easier for a Labour one.

I can see the Lib Dems out in the cold of politics for a really long time again now after their performance in this Coalition,Clegg will likely run off to a well paid postion in Europe anyway after the next election, he could even lose his seat in Sheffield if things stay much as they are now.

The person,in my view, who really got the Lib Dems to a position of strength was Charles Kennedy, it is Clegg who has blown the chance of going much further from that or even having the Lib Dems being in the same position again for a long time to come.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

A really strong point and in my opinion the Lib Dems are going to find themselves back to pre-alliance in 1983 numbers as to having MPs after the next election.
The argument for a change in the voting system will be likely laid aside for some time,decades probably by all others.

Something else the Lib Dems under Clegg could not deliver, even with the best chance ever of insisting it was part of the Coalition agreement.
They should have insisted on AV being brought in anyway and then having a referendum on other forms of PR before or on the same day as the next general election.
After this Coalition, few will listen to the Lib Dems now as to this issue in my view.

The Conservatives now know how to play the Coalition game, had they had just a few more seats,then with the DUP, they likely would not have needed the Lib Dems at all.
Even if Labour miss out on an overall majority next time too, parties like Plaid Cymru,the SDLP in Northern Ireland and likely even the SNP, would not be likely to support a Conservative Govt but could make life easier for a Labour one.

I can see the Lib Dems out in the cold of politics for a really long time again now after their performance in this Coalition,Clegg will likely run off to a well paid postion in Europe anyway after the next election, he could even lose his seat in Sheffield if things stay much as they are now.

The person,in my view, who really got the Lib Dems to a position of strength was Charles Kennedy, it is Clegg who has blown the chance of going much further from that or even having the Lib Dems being in the same position again for a long time to come.

liberals have made many mistakes, clearly the failure to support the poorer students was one of the worst. But failing to call people bigots , is nowhere near the top of the list. Funny how youre allowed to stray into other points by the radical liberals on this site, yet Im not because Im not a radical liberal. such tedious hypocrisy

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

liberals have made many mistakes, clearly the failure to support the poorer students was one of the worst. But failing to call people bigots , is nowhere near the top of the list. Funny how youre allowed to stray into other points by the radical liberals on this site, yet Im not because Im not a radical liberal. such tedious hypocrisy

Well, it's a politically themed thread made by arista who has conversed with me on my points so clearly he has no problem with anything or direction I am going in.
I have great respect for arista and would not in any way set out to offend him on a thread he made.

In fact I made the point initially in my first post only relating to Cleggs comment.
The thread may have 'opened up' into a wider political debate but still concerned with the Lib Dems and their position under Clegg which in turn leads into their expected electoral success in the future, which although a storm in a teacup as far as I am concerned, Clegg's bigot comment will not be of any assistance to his party.

If I may respond to your latter part of the post above, I actually agree with some of what you have said on this thread in part,however you may find you would likely get a lot further if you didn't resort to insulting people like Redway for instance,who also makes valid points as an equal member and should not have to be insulted because of anything he may or may not do personally.
He is a good guy and doesn't deserve that in any way at all,just my opinion, you have given me yours though so now you have mine.