[fruit_cake]

I'm not sure I agree with the 'having a child is not a right' argument. It's not like a particular child, born into a difficult family environment ever had a chance to be born in a good environment to different parents in a different relationship!

We cannot pick and chose who create us, we are either created or not. The question is, is despite being born in an awful family without love or caring, would those that found themselves in that position still choose life, or would they choose never to have existed at all. Those are the only two possibilities that can ever have existed.

Back on topic, I personally think it's blooming marvellous that these days homosexual couples can adopt or even create children (given surrogacy). Good on them and may the force be with them as far as I'm concerned.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

children from IVF would be just as adoptable, so i don't know what you are talking about.

i said, at puberty, sperm and eggs would be taken from everyone, i think i forgot to then mention that everyone would then be sterilized after that. Everyone would be sterilized in the same way we all get polio vaccines. So everyone would be adopting. It would be impossible for anyone to procreate through sex. That was probably an important detail i left out.

But yea, all people would be incapable of having children through intercourse, and everyone would have to APPLY to adopt through that government agency, and only the most qualified people would be allowed to raise the next generation of children. The WHOLE POINT being that only qualified capable parents would be raising children.

So you want others to be forced to give their sperm and eggs.... dear god.

Adopt your own child - or be forced to accept the genes of others....... has to be one of the most laughable ideas I've heard - but you've fair made me smile on this thread - I'll give you that!

For those who that the thread applies to and who are saying they'd like to go down the surrogacy route: would you prefer a person 'unknown' or would you prefer for it to be someone that you know and trust?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

So you want others to be forced to give their sperm and eggs.... dear god.

Adopt your own child - or be forced to accept the genes of others....... has to be one of the most laughable ideas I've heard - but you've fair made me smile on this thread - I'll give you that!

For those who that the thread applies to and who are saying they'd like to go down the surrogacy route: would you prefer a person 'unknown' or would you prefer for it to be someone that you know and trust?

why are you asking people obviously i've designed the system to avoid all of the selfishness, and tribalism that is inherent in people's small minded opinions. the genetics would be above the individuals.


we would choose the genetics that most benefit our world, not just people's small minded preferences, people's pathetic need to feel like they matter.

We should all have a vested interest in what's best for our SPECIES> not just what pacifies our own fragile egos.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by lostalex

why are you asking people obviously i've designed the system to avoid all of the selfishness, and tribalism that is inherent in people's small minded opinions. the genetics would be above the individuals.


we would choose the genetics that most benefit our world, not just people's small minded preferences, people's pathetic need to feel like they matter.

We should all have a vested interest in what's best for our SPECIES> not just what pacifies our own fragile egos.

You do know this is never going to happen don't you?

Its just far too wrong to contemplate

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

why are you asking people obviously i've designed the system to avoid all of the selfishness, and tribalism that is inherent in people's small minded opinions. the genetics would be above the individuals.


we would choose the genetics that most benefit our world, not just people's small minded preferences, people's pathetic need to feel like they matter.

We should all have a vested interest in what's best for our SPECIES> not just what pacifies our own fragile egos.

PMSL.... 'I've designed the system to avoid all the selfishness and tribalism'...... you don't think not allowing others a choice isn't small minded. Okaaaay .......

I don't have a fragile ego, I don't have to be concerned about pacifiying it. I'm more concerned with allowing people a choice in whether they want their genes & DNA used and given to persons unknown - without the fear of someone wanting to know 20 years later "Who IS my real dad / mum"...... let me go hunt them down and screw their lives up because they were forced to give their eggs/sperm.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by anniek76

You do know this is never going to happen don't you?

Its just far too wrong to contemplate

Of course it's never going to happen...and he knows it too..... but it passes a non eventful Friday afternoon and that can never be a bad thing!

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Of course it's never going to happen...and he knows it too..... but it passes a non eventful Friday afternoon and that can never be a bad thing!

True enough

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

PMSL.... 'I've designed the system to avoid all the selfishness and tribalism'...... you don't think not allowing others a choice isn't small minded. Okaaaay .......

I don't have a fragile ego, I don't have to be concerned about pacifiying it. I'm more concerned with allowing people a choice in whether they want their genes & DNA used and given to persons unknown - without the fear of someone wanting to know 20 years later "Who IS my real dad / mum"...... let me go hunt them down and screw their lives up because they were forced to give their eggs/sperm.

you'd be asking "who's my REAL DAD?" no. what does that mean? would you rather let people with no parental skills at all have children, then you'll be asking "why was my REAL DAD raping me and no body helped me?" "why was my real mom selling me to strangers for drugs?"

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

you'd be asking "who's my REAL DAD?" no. what does that mean? would you rather let people with no parental skills at all have children, then you'll be asking "why was my REAL DAD raping me and no body helped me?" "why was my real mom selling me to strangers for drugs?"

I'd not be asking anything. I know who my parents were and both of them were willing participants in creating a new life.

they way you put it over - it's as though incest is a normal every day part of family life in the main ..... hate to break it to you: It's not.

All of which is side tracking from the thread though........

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

you'd be asking "who's my REAL DAD?" no. what does that mean? would you rather let people with no parental skills at all have children, then you'll be asking "why was my REAL DAD raping me and no body helped me?" "why was my real mom selling me to strangers for drugs?"

All this money might be better spent in improving the social welfare system, increasing social workers for children and making and enforcing stricter rules when it comes to children in homes where they're not being taken care of properly. Sterilising the human race is unnatural and frankly quite barbaric

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'd not be asking anything. I know who my parents were and both of them were willing participants in creating a new life.

they way you put it over - it's as though incest is a normal every day part of family life in the main ..... hate to break it to you: It's not.

All of which is side tracking from the thread though........

actually it is. the statistics are that 1 out of every 4 children have been sexually assaulted by the age of 18, and the vast majority of those assaults are from within the house.

1 out of 4 is A LOT.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

All this money might be better spent in improving the social welfare system, increasing social workers for children and making and enforcing stricter rules when it comes to children in homes where they're not being taken care of properly. Sterilising the human race is unnatural and frankly quite barbaric

the human race is barbaric. my solution is not. My solution is fighting fire with water.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

the human race is barbaric. my solution is not. My solution is fighting fire with water.

There are some very bad parents out there definitely but there are also some amazing parents. I don't think punishing every parent or potential parent is the answer though and is very unfair. It would be like putting everyone in prison to prevent crime.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually it is. the statistics are that 1 out of every 4 children have been sexually assaulted by the age of 18, and the vast majority of those assaults are from within the house.

1 out of 4 is A LOT.

1 out of 4 is not 'in the main;, it is not a majority - it's still remains a low percentage...it means that 75% are free of such things and lead happy, fruitful, loving, caring lives and who will no doubt pass those good attributes onto their own children should they wish to have any.

That still does not mean that a surrogate parent / child, deemed to be the perfect parent as per your description - doesn't mean they will not do the same thing. Pretending that IVF/test tube babies and 'parents being chosen' will maketh the perfect human race is as crazy as anything I've ever heard. they may as well just make clones.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

actually it is. the statistics are that 1 out of every 4 children have been sexually assaulted by the age of 18, and the vast majority of those assaults are from within the house.

1 out of 4 is A LOT.

That might be so but why do you think getting people to adopt lab made children would stop that? It's not as if people are going to write on their application form Paedophilia and rape as one of their hobbies

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There are some very bad parents out there definitely but there are also some amazing parents. I don't think punishing every parent or potential parent is the answer though and is very unfair. It would be like putting everyone in prison to prevent crime.

i'm not proposing punishing anyone. Requiring parents to prove thjey are good parents and capable parents BEFORE they are allowed to care for children, how is that "punishing" anyone?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

1 out of 4 is not 'in the main;, it is not a majority - it's still remains a low percentage...it means that 75% are free of such things and lead happy, fruitful, loving, caring lives and who will no doubt pass those good attributes onto their own children should they wish to have any.

That still does not mean that a surrogate parent / child, deemed to be the perfect parent as per your description - doesn't mean they will not do the same thing. Pretending that IVF/test tube babies and 'parents being chosen' will maketh the perfect human race is as crazy as anything I've ever heard. they may as well just make clones.

really? it's a low percentage???

if Airplanes had a 1 in 4 chance of crashing, would you get on a plane? how many times would you fly?

1 out of every 4 flights crash, and you'd get on a plane? i don't think so.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That might be so but why do you think getting people to adopt lab made children would stop that? It's not as if people are going to write on their application form Paedophilia and rape as one of their hobbies

Sick black humour kicked in there. Sorry.

since the idea is to 'force sperm and eggs to be taken at puberty' from these poor children....... that's a form of abuse in it's own right - and apart from which: at such an age as puberty: such deviant inclinations may not have yet presented themselves in said sperm/egg donor.

There's no way anyone can honestly take this all seriously !!!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

really? it's a low percentage???

if Airplanes had a 1 in 4 chance of crashing, would you get on a plane? how many times would you fly?

The chances of car crashes are higher and I drive every day....not that that has anything at all to do with what we are speaking of.

How about addressing the points that are on topic..... or are you intending to continue to avoid them?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i'm not proposing punishing anyone. Requiring parents to prove thjey are good parents and capable parents BEFORE they are allowed to care for children, how is that "punishing" anyone?

Taking away a persons right to have their own biological children, forcibly sterilising them and taking away the most amazing experience a woman can have by carrying her own child.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

The chances of car crashes are higher and I driver every day....not that that has anything at all to do with what we are speaking of.

How about addressing the points that are on topic..... or are you intending to continue to avoid them?

umm, what? no, the chances of dying in a car crash are FAR lower than 1 out of 4, what are you talking about??

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Taking away a persons right to have their own biological children, forcibly sterilising them and taking away the most amazing experience a woman can have by carrying her own child.

that's not punishment anymore than requiring someone to have a driver's license is punishment. having a child is much more serious than driving a car.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

umm, what? no, the chances of dying in a car crash are FAR lower than 1 out of 4, what are you talking about??

the thread subject....... or at least trying to but you seem to prefer not to.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

the thread subject....... or at least trying to but you seem to prefer not to.

once again you seem to have a hard time following your own conversations. I'd sue your teachers if i were you. you'd have a good case.

[fruit_cake]

I think Alex assumed the 'state' will somehow be more fair when selecting who can and can't reproduce.

The state is merely a group of people, all fallable and all just as flawed as anyone else.