[MTVN]

he head of the military wing of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, Ahmed Said Khalil al-Jabari, has been killed in an Israeli air strike in Gaza City.

He and another senior Hamas official died when the car they were travelling in was hit.

It appears to have been the first step of an Israeli operation against militant groups in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip.

A series of air strikes are now being reported across Gaza.

The Israeli Defence Force (IDF) said it had launched "Operation Cloud Pillar" against Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other militant groups.

In recent days, Israeli officials had said they were considering assassinating senior figures in Hamas following a wave of heavy rocket-fire.

Mr Jabari, who was 46, is the most senior Hamas official to be killed in the Gaza Strip since the major Israeli offensive four years ago.

Israel's Shin Bet security service confirmed he had been targeted, saying he was responsible for "all terrorist activities against Israel from Gaza" in the last decade.

"Jabari was responsible for financing and directing military operations and attacks against Israel. His elimination today is a message to Hamas officials in Gaza that if they continue promoting terrorism against Israel, they will be hurt," it said.

'Heinous crime'

Since Saturday, four Palestinian civilians and three militants, including Mr Jabari, have been killed in Gaza, and dozens injured. Eight Israelis have also been hurt.

Hamas spokesman Taher Anunu told BBC Arabic: "This was a heinous crime that will have repercussions.

"The Palestinian government will call for the trial of those responsible for the crime, and for hitting a civilian area, but the Palestinian factions have the right to respond in a way they see fit."

The BBC's Jon Donnison in Gaza City says the sound of gunfire echoed through the streets after Wednesday's air strike which killed Mr Jabari.

There are fears the attack could lead to another war, he adds.

Here we go again

[arista]

"Israeli air strike2

Yes they got lucky.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...-gaza-jaabairi

[Nedusa]

This is the sort of action that typifies this nasty evil fascist gangster state, target a car full of "terrorists" or perhaps a man with his wife and children, and then let rip with a laser guided missile and blow the lot into very small pieces.

The sooner the World consigns this nasty evil aberration of a state into history the better for all mankind....!!!

Words cannot do justice to how I feel about the death destruction and misery this evil Zionist cabal have inflicted on the planet...!!!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

This is the sort of action that typifies this nasty evil fascist gangster state, target a car full of "terrorists" or perhaps a man with his wife and children, and then let rip with a laser guided missile and blow the lot into very small pieces.

The sooner the World consigns this nasty evil aberration of a state into history the better for all mankind....!!!

Words cannot do justice to how I feel about the death destruction and misery this evil Zionist cabal have inflicted on the planet...!!!

I'd like to quote a couple of sentences from the link Arista posted...

"Ahmed al-Jaabari, the head of the Islamist organisation's military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, died when his car was struck in Gaza City by a missile after Israel warned it may step up targeted assassinations, having endured almost a week of intense rocket fire from Gaza."

It's not like the "evil Zionist cabal" are free from attack. I don't hold with the violence that goes back and forth, but it is not a one-way street.

[MTVN]

I think the Israeli response to these attacks has often been disproportionate though, I accept that they are in a very vulnerable position and have to put up with a lot of rocket attacks but like the BBC article says "since Saturday, four Palestinian civilians and three militants, including Mr Jabari, have been killed in Gaza, and dozens injured. Eight Israelis have also been hurt", it seems to me that the response to any injured Israeli's is always to kill a few Palestinians and I don't think that Israel and the West regard Palestinian lives to be as important as Israel ones. Sure Hamas' actions are provocative but you could argue that Israel's actions are far more so

[the truth]

the number of palestinians killed over the years vastly outnumbers the israelis killed. clearly the fact the us arms israel with endless weaponry is the key

remind me again, why the israeli state was set up there instead of a more peaceful area in the world? reclaiming land 2000 later is akin to me handing back my house the the vikings, doesnt sound too smart does it?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'd like to quote a couple of sentences from the link Arista posted...

"Ahmed al-Jaabari, the head of the Islamist organisation's military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, died when his car was struck in Gaza City by a missile after Israel warned it may step up targeted assassinations, having endured almost a week of intense rocket fire from Gaza."

It's not like the "evil Zionist cabal" are free from attack. I don't hold with the violence that goes back and forth, but it is not a one-way street.

americas far right and israel have used a quote from the iranian leader as reason to go to war, a quote? a quote which may i add was slightly misinterpreted as he said he longs to see an end to zionism, he didnt say he wanted to wipe israel off the map. however its just a quote. actions speak way louder and todays actions were pretty tragic.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

the number of palestinians killed over the years vastly outnumbers the israelis killed. clearly the fact the us arms israel with endless weaponry is the key

remind me again, why the israeli state was set up there instead of a more peaceful area in the world? reclaiming land 2000 later is akin to me handing back my house the the vikings, doesnt sound too smart does it?

Why there? You're kidding, right?

The vikings analogy is way off, and really, you know that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think the Israeli response to these attacks has often been disproportionate though, I accept that they are in a very vulnerable position and have to put up with a lot of rocket attacks but like the BBC article says "since Saturday, four Palestinian civilians and three militants, including Mr Jabari, have been killed in Gaza, and dozens injured. Eight Israelis have also been hurt", it seems to me that the response to any injured Israeli's is always to kill a few Palestinians and I don't think that Israel and the West regard Palestinian lives to be as important as Israel ones. Sure Hamas' actions are provocative but you could argue that Israel's actions are far more so

I don't disagree with you completely on this. The Israeli reaction is out of proportion a lot of the time. I think that ordinary Israelis and ordinary Palestinians would be quite happy to sort something out and try to rub along together, but the powers that be on both sides would never let that happen. My post was really a reaction to Nedusa's post, which I found to be completely one-sided.

[joeysteele]

Israel is surrounded by Nations that really hate it and although I don't agree with all the retaliations,it cannot just sit there and take all that is thrown their way and let the other Nations walk all over them.

The tensions must be stronger now too, the new powers in Egypt for instance are more likely to be closer to Hamas than the west.
Mubarrak's Egypt was less likely to be provocative to Israel.

A solution has to be found to the Israeli/Palestinian problem in the Middle East, I am aware Israel is often the stumbling block to that a fair bit of the time but it has to have its right to secure safety and survival.
Hopefully this will be something President Obama makes more effort to influence some lasting peaceful compromise to this seemingly endless problem.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why there? You're kidding, right?

The vikings analogy is way off, and really, you know that.

really I dont. why give land back to a people 2000 years later? its lunacy? and no less stupid than your I handing over our homes to the vikings or the romans...anyone with sense could have seen this was lunacy from the start leading to infinite war and guess what, the lunacy will go on until they all blow the whole world up!
an israeli state should and could have been set up elsewhere with the full support of the west. youd have to question the real political reasons for placing the jewish state in the gaza strip. were we seeking peace or were we using the suffering of the jews to get a foothold inthe middle east?

[billy123]

The Israeli offensive dubbed "Operation Pillar of Cloud" has intensified in the last three hours with Gaza officials calling it a slaughter of Gaza citizens.

Live feed on you stream reporting latest news broadcasts in the middle east with not suprisingly the US offering full support to Israel,The Arab league due to hold an emergency meeting,Many reports of Air strikes in Gaza and a pledge by Israel to launch a ground offensive.

Live stream: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operat..._medium=social

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Israel is surrounded by Nations that really hate it and although I don't agree with all the retaliations,it cannot just sit there and take all that is thrown their way and let the other Nations walk all over them.

The tensions must be stronger now too, the new powers in Egypt for instance are more likely to be closer to Hamas than the west.
Mubarrak's Egypt was less likely to be provocative to Israel.

A solution has to be found to the Israeli/Palestinian problem in the Middle East, I am aware Israel is often the stumbling block to that a fair bit of the time but it has to have its right to secure safety and survival.
Hopefully this will be something President Obama makes more effort to influence some lasting peaceful compromise to this seemingly endless problem.

exactly why they shouldnt have put it there in 1948. it is extraordinary however moving forward how these leaders, who supposedly care for their people cannot find a 2 state solution? Im not sure if we can use the irish peace process as an example. but surely stability in the middle east massively rests on this infinite battle. 2 wrongs will never make a right. Over to you president obama, hes not even allowed to have an opinion on netenyahu, no one is it seems for fear of being called anti-semitic

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

really I dont. why give land back to a people 2000 years later? its lunacy? anyone with sense could have seen this and guess what, the lunacy will go on until they all blow the whole world up!

As a Jew, Israel is my spiritual home. That's how I feel about it. To say the state should have been placed somewhere else makes no sense to me at all.

[Nedusa]

Where to start with this...?? OK try being one of 1.5 Million poverty stricken people imprisoned in a 140 sq miles of land , fenced in and unable to go anywhere else in the world. Forced to endure endless checkpoints forced to run the risk of being shot or bombed from the air night or day.Forced to live with the daily knowledge that your only bit of refuge could be invaded by the Israeli Military at any moment and you and your family could be showered with white phosphorus. Forced to endure constant noise from the sonic booms of Israeli jets constantly flying overhead. Forced to live a life of constant struggle just to survive with little or no hope of ever going anywhere just walking around filled with hatred.

That'll do for starters....!!!!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

As a Jew, Israel is my spiritual home. That's how I feel about it. To say the state should have been placed somewhere else makes no sense to me at all.

if it is your spiritual home, why dont you go and live there? genuine question.

well the jews were wandering tribes and persecuted through the centuries. why not give them a safer more peaceful peace of real estate? where they could have lived in peace forever? look at the argentinians trying to reclaim the falklands? thats only 30 years later and thered be hell to pay, then try 2000 years later....Most jews I know are totally disiliusioned with the entire situation. but we are where we are and its a disaster for everyone. there is no peace, no respect, no hope of a bright future. the endless hate, revenge, violence, it just goes on and on and on...destrying the hopes and dreams of young people on both sides and destabilizing the entire middle east and the world. how can a 2 state solution ever get off the ground?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

if it is your spiritual home, why dont you go and live there? genuine question.

well the jews were wandering tribes and persecuted through the centuries. why not give them a safer more peaceful peace of real estate? where they could have lived in peace forever? look at the argentinians trying to reclaim the falklands? thats only 30 years later and thered be hell to pay, then try 2000 years later....Most jews I know are totally disiliusioned with the entire situation. but we are where we are and its a disaster for everyone. there is no peace, no respect, no hope of a bright future. the endless hate, revenge, violence, it just goes on and on and on...destrying the hopes and dreams of young people on both sides and destabilizing the entire middle east and the world. how can a 2 state solution ever get off the ground?

Why don't I go and live there? Why don't all the Catholics go and live in Vatican City? This is my country, and this is where I live. I am slightly offended you should suggest I should go and live in Israel. As far as I know, the Falkland Islands isn't a sacred place to any religion so once again the analogy is shakey at best.

Israel has been sacred to the Jews for five thousand years. Islam has only been a religion for about a thousand years so I don't know where you get 2000 years from, unless you're getting muddled up with Christianity.

I have been to Israel, many times. I can tell you that most Jews I know, which is considerably more than most Jews you know I reckon, would rather live in peace than live in fear. Most ordinary Jews, just like I suspect most Palestinians, would rather their leaders sat down together and came to some sort of compromise that would allow ordinary people on both sides to live in peace rather than endure the insanity that's going on at the moment.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why don't I go and live there? Why don't all the Catholics go and live in Vatican City? This is my country, and this is where I live. I am slightly offended you should suggest I should go and live in Israel. As far as I know, the Falkland Islands isn't a sacred place to any religion so once again the analogy is shakey at best.

Israel has been sacred to the Jews for five thousand years. Islam has only been a religion for about a thousand years so I don't know where you get 2000 years from, unless you're getting muddled up with Christianity.

I have been to Israel, many times. I can tell you that most Jews I know, which is considerably more than most Jews you know I reckon, would rather live in peace than live in fear. Most ordinary Jews, just like I suspect most Palestinians, would rather their leaders sat down together and came to some sort of compromise that would allow ordinary people on both sides to live in peace rather than endure the insanity that's going on at the moment.

Youre not offended by that , so please dont pretend to be
You did say its your spiritual home, I asked in that case why not go live there?I think I know why, because its a war zone.

The 2000 years is one estimate of how long its been since the jews suposedly resided there. Islam is 1400+ years old. thugh if were going to measure everything by time elapsed then why not hand stonehenge back to the druids? if you want us all to live by the same standards applied here, then as a norwegian immigrant I lay claim to your home on account of my great grandfather 40 times removed. it really is that ridiculous.

I also come from a long line of Blooms and Bloombergs so I have plenty of Jewish lineage and Im sorry I think the setting up of the Jewish state there 2000 years later, was one of the most gravest mistakes humanity has ever made. Perhaps it was well intentioned by some, or seen as some kind of solution to the persecution of the jews. But by others no doubt the Jewish state was merely a pawn to control the middle east and their oil. We talk about international law and UN resolutions, but clearly Israel and the US are beyond these laws, thus rendering them meaningless. One law for one and one law for others create complete hatred and bloodshed and everyone loses. Israel is not the spiritual place it should be, without peace it never will be.

Well we cant go backwards now. But really I just hope and pray Obama can somehow bang heads together urgently. There seems to have been little talk of peaceful compromise for a very long time. Maybe Bill Clinton could be brought into play. He tried his best but his last years were besieged by the lewinsky affair. He did a grand job in ireland though. Heres one thing we do agree on, we both want them to find some peaceful solution. Lets hope it happens in our lifetime

[Livia]

Originally Posted by the truth

Youre not offended by that , so please dont pretend to be
You did say its your spiritual home, I asked in that case why not go live there?I think I know why, because its a war zone.

The 2000 years is one estimate of how long its been since the jews suposedly resided there. Islam is 1400+ years old. thugh if were going to measure everything by time elapsed then why not hand stonehenge back to the druids? if you want us all to live by the same standards applied here, then as a norwegian immigrant I lay claim to your home on account of my great grandfather 40 times removed. it really is that ridiculous.

I also come from a long line of Blooms and Bloombergs so I have plenty of Jewish lineage and Im sorry I think the setting up of the Jewish state there 2000 years later, was one of the most gravest mistakes humanity has ever made. Perhaps it was well intentioned by some, or seen as some kind of solution to the persecution of the jews. But by others no doubt the Jewish state was merely a pawn to control the middle east and their oil. We talk about international law and UN resolutions, but clearly Israel and the US are beyond these laws, thus rendering them meaningless. One law for one and one law for others create complete hatred and bloodshed and everyone loses. Israel is not the spiritual place it should be, without peace it never will be.

Well we cant go backwards now. But really I just hope and pray Obama can somehow bang heads together urgently. There seems to have been little talk of peaceful compromise for a very long time. Maybe Bill Clinton could be brought into play. He tried his best but his last years were besieged by the lewinsky affair. He did a grand job in ireland though. Heres one thing we do agree on, we both want them to find some peaceful solution. Lets hope it happens in our lifetime

Don't presume to know my mind. I don't live in Israel because I am English and this is my home. That doesn't mean I don't have relatives in Israel, and that I don't visit Israel. I am offended by your comment. If I was an African and you asked me why I didn't go and live back in Africa, or if I was Indian and you asked me why I didn't go back and live in India, you wouldn't assume I would not be offended. You side-stepped the comment about Catholics living in Vatican City though, I notice, and that was a far better analogy than any you've come up with.

You claim to come from Jewish ancestry but you can't think why they set up a Jewish state in Israel. I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone - even without the claim of having Jews in the family - can't understand why Jews want to be in Israel so there's no point me even conversing with you about this.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

Don't presume to know my mind. I don't live in Israel because I am English and this is my home. That doesn't mean I don't have relatives in Israel, and that I don't visit Israel. I am offended by your comment. If I was an African and you asked me why I didn't go and live back in Africa, or if I was Indian and you asked me why I didn't go back and live in India, you wouldn't assume I would not be offended. You side-stepped the comment about Catholics living in Vatican City though, I notice, and that was a far better analogy than any you've come up with.

You claim to come from Jewish ancestry but you can't think why they set up a Jewish state in Israel. I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone - even without the claim of having Jews in the family - can't understand why Jews want to be in Israel so there's no point me even conversing with you about this.

africa is a continent that has always been there and still is, this is totally dissimilar...this is a vague notion of an ancient lost history which was attempted to be reclaimed 2000 years later...the whole plan was insane. you said it was your spiritual home so I asked why dont you go and live there if you feel its your spiritual home. Id ask the same of anyone who said that about any place they called their spiritual home. The fact you claim to be offended is your problem not mind. There is nothing offensive whatsoever about asking a eprson who claims a place is their spiritual home why they dont go and live there. I feel mid wales is my spiritual home so I went to live there. I went to llangollen international festival one day and I literally welled up as it was and still is the most beautiful place Id ever seen. I told people how much I lovedthe place, people asked me if id get out of the rat race of london and go live there, I didnt get offended so I went to live in mid wales and it is my spiritual home.

I think the whole israel project has been a disaster for everyone, jews, non jews, zionists, palestinians, the middle east. it was ill conceived and carried out badly. as for how to move forward. The jews could always live in palestine or the middle east, but stealing back a country 2000 years later , well a 5 year old could tell you that would create an endless war....the solution moving forward? well for starters we the people should be allowed to discuss the matter with being falsely accused of racism. secondly they need to finally sit down with an unbiased objective UN mediator and actually settle on where the boundaries are and signed a 2 state solution, with both sides recognising each other as a nation in its own right. Then the UN needs to write a binding resolution signed by all parties that if anyone breaks it the punishments are clearly known. the surrent situation is tragic and is getting worse. I want peace and a solution , 2 state is obviously the way forward. some people involved, especially the warmongers do not want peace. these people must be weeded out. they drive on the ongoing chaos and hate of this unwinnable war. people pretending to be offended about every other word are also not doing the cause any good. lets look at the big picture and supprt a peaceful solution

[Livia]

I found what you said "slightly" offensive. That's what I said. You can't tell me whether to feel offended or not. It's not like I reported you or called you racist (because I don't think you are)... I just stated how I felt. Please don't accuse me of pretending, because that really is offensive.

The only thing that we agree on is that the perfect solution would be for people to find a peaceful solution. We can back and forth for days with this, but I don't intend to do that because I'm looking at it from an angle you don't understand and try as I might I won't be able to make you see it, any more than you will make me see it from yours.

[the truth]

Looks like its getting worse. look at all those army commanders in their bomber jackets, they love a good war. Bunch of war mongering pillocks the lot of them on all sides. If the world was at peace , as it should be, these hate-filled clowns wouldnt get a mop job at butlins. They will always find reasons to hate, they have nothing constructive to offer the world , just utter destruction. In any other walk of life we would treat them with scorn and disdain. if a loud mouthed violent hater walked into your local pub,restautant or music hall. the majority would ignore him and the security would throw him out. yet when it comes to the free world , we give these maniacs the keys to the kingdom. retire them all off, let them get embittered and talk about the good old days of warmongering out of sight out of mind.

as ted turner recently put it. Its time to forget wars, end them all. send the message arund the world. get everyone to sit down and agree, to resign war to the history books. its so mindless its beyond description. Its as dumb as a manbombing his neighbor because hes taking his car parking space, he in turn bombs him and his cousins house and so it goes on. Youd get more progress by blasting billy joel music across the gaza straights.

these tiny minority of people runningthe petnagon and the middle east do not want peace. they wouldnt have a clue what to do with it, sing a song perhaps? as that line in the sound of music said, if the nazis actually had any music in them and joined aband, theyd be the entire trumpet section.


time we the people stole back the free world from these war mongering boring mindless zealots!

[arista]

Yes ITVNews just showed Loads of Israeli Tanks
ready to Invade and Attack.


One good Israeli Weapon is a Missle that destroys the attcking
missile before it can land.


The President Of America is not helping anything
typical of him

[the truth]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes ITVNews just showed Loads of Israeli Tanks
ready to Invade and Attack.


One good Israeli Weapon is a Missle that destroys the attcking
missile before it can land.


The President Of America is not helping anything
typical of him

i think obamas given up on netenyahu, frankly I think he disgusts obama

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by the truth

i think obamas given up on netenyahu, frankly I think he disgusts obama

It wouldn't hurt for him to stand up to him a bit more, he completely backed down when Netanyahu told him there'd be no discussion of Israel withdrawing to the agreed 1967 borders, without which there's no hope for any real peace process at all