Originally Posted by thesheriff443

but that's just it!, its the mother's choice not your's,you can be deeply in love plan for a baby you are then pregnant, and for whatever reason your partner decide's to end the the pregnancy you have no right's to stop her.

It's not a perfect system, but it works. The alternative is to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, and then deliver a baby she doesn't want. That's wrong.

Originally Posted by lostalex

funny how the same men that say it should be a joint decision, are the same men that then complain when they have to pay child support...

I would have no issue in paying child support at all. But most men probably say that.

[lostalex]

if men and women were equal, then yes, it should be an equal choice, but the fact is women are a discriminated against minority, and for men to prtend like they are an equal partner is rediculous.

When men take equal responsibility for children, then maybe they can have an equal say in a child's life.

So listen up men, if you want an equal say, help make women equal. equal pay, and equal positions of power, then you can ask for equality. until then, S*T*F*U.

The truth is that men still think of women as being put on this earth to carry and care for their offspring. until men get over their prejudices, they don't deserve equal rights. until men start TREATING women as EQUALS, then they cannot ask for equal parental rights.

Originally Posted by lostalex

if men and women were equal, then yes, it should be an equal choice, but the fact is women are a discriminated against minority, and for men to prtend like they are an equal partner is rediculous.

When men take equal responsibility for children, then maybe they can have an equal say in a child's life.

So listen up men, if you want an equal say, help make women equal. equal pay, and equal positions of power, then you can ask for equality. until then, S*T*F*U.

The truth is that men still think of women as being put on this earth to carry and care for their offspring. until men get over their prejudices, they don't deserve equal rights. until men start TREATING women as EQUALS, then they cannot ask for equal parental rights.

If a straight man made that many generalisations about gay men, you'd be flipping your lid. There are honourable/dishonorable people throughout society.

[Munchkins]

These are two of the most thought provoking questions that will never have a definitive answer tbh. I am pro choice, however it doesn't mean i'm for abortion, just if the woman really feels it is her only option then i believe its ok, however everyone should be done to try to prevent this being her only option.
Euthanasia i am also for, i do not think we should get the right to decide if someone themselves have the right to live, it is their own decision, and we can not make that for them, however if it is eventually legalised there needs to be strict restrictions, so that it is not easy to go through the process

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

If a straight man made that many generalisations about gay men, you'd be flipping your lid. There are honourable/dishonorable people throughout society.

Absolutely, the laws regarding fathers rights are completely out dated as well. It's actually disgraceful. Over here if a couple aren't married, even if the fathers name is on the birth certificate, he's not considered to be legal guardian of his own child and actually has to get the mothers permission to make him so or else take her to court

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

If a straight man made that many generalisations about gay men, you'd be flipping your lid. There are honourable/dishonorable people throughout society.

No, if gay men had equal rights to str8 men, then i wouldn't. My point is that there needs to be equality NOW.

Gay men, or str8 women are not treated equally in society. so it's stupid for you to act like we should treat everyone the same. I wish everyone was treated the same, but they are not. When there is real equality, then you can start complaining about str8 men getting a raw deal,m but str8 men are still enjoying more privilege so they cannot complain.

[Kazanne]

Can I say sheriff,nice to have a good healthy debate going on here

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Can I say sheriff,nice to have a good healthy debate going on here

I agree! It's great!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Can I say sheriff,nice to have a good healthy debate going on here

umm, i had something to do with the good debate too... why are you only giving him/her the credit for it?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I agree! It's great!

why do you have the same sig as the person you're agreeing with?

It just makes you look like a sycophant.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

but that's one side of the coin, its a different story if you planned for a baby.

If you've planned a baby why would you abort it?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lostalex

umm, i had something to do with the good debate too... why are you only giving him/her the credit for it?

sheriff started the thread lostalex , but all contributions are interesting

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lostalex

why do you have the same sig as the person you're agreeing with?

It just makes you look like a sycophant.

We are on the same team in the pub quiz , we are team Sparta

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Glenn

If you've planned a baby why would you abort it?

Don't bother with logic Glenn. In God-world logic has no place...

God-world is a magical place where yu are an asshole for making sense... it's not a nice place to be.

Originally Posted by lostalex

No, if gay men had equal rights to str8 men, then i wouldn't. My point is that there needs to be equality NOW.

Gay men, or str8 women are not treated equally in society. so it's stupid for you to act like we should treat everyone the same. I wish everyone was treated the same, but they are not. When there is real equality, then you can start complaining about str8 men getting a raw deal,m but str8 men are still enjoying more privilege so they cannot complain.

That's not what I said. I recognise, as a straight, white, male that I'm in the group that have had it easiest in modern history, but you're just wrong about all straight men treating all minorities the same.

If I tried to label all gay people as the same, you'd go mad, as I've seen you do it before. Well all straight people aren't the same either.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

That's not what I said. I recognise, as a straight, white, male that I'm in the group that have had it easiest in modern history, but you're just wrong about all straight men treating all minorities the same.

If I tried to label all gay people as the same, you'd go mad, as I've seen you do it before. Well all straight people aren't the same either.

well when you prove it, as a str8 man, by making society more equal, then i'm happy to listen. until then, i'm dealing with the unequal world that we live in.
But listening to a str8 man with all the privilege complain about inequality, sorry, i'm not bothered.

Maybe you should try to work on making the world equal instead of complaining about your own problems...maybe when you care as much about inequality, then we can talk.

A person of privilege cannot complain about inequality.

[Ammi]

..although, as a mother I can't imagine myself having an abortion..(I'm a bit old now anyway)..I think that every female has the right to decide on whether she terminates a pregnancy or not..but I will say that there should be counselling etc available (I don't know if there is) to help her with her decision and for her to be sure it's what she wants....

Originally Posted by lostalex

well when you prove it, as a str8 man, by making society more equal, then i'm happy to listen. until then, i'm dealing with the unequal world that we live in.
But listening to a str8 man with all the privilege complain about inequality, sorry, i'm not bothered.

Maybe you should try to work on making the world equal instead of complaining about your own problems...maybe when you care as much about inequality, then we can talk.

A person of privilege cannot complain about inequality.

How would you like me to single-handedly deliver equality to the world? I'm not complaining about inequality for white straight men, I'm saying you've made the same generalisations that rile you up about gay people so much. We're actually on the same side in terms of inequality in the world.

There is always someone who had it harder. If I'd grown up as a gay man, I'd still of had the same family, grown up in the same area, lived a pretty similar life. A gay Muslim guy in Tehran would die for your freedoms. I'm not the enemy, bigots are the enemy, and they survive in all quarters of society.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

How would you like me to single-handedly deliver equality to the world? I'm not complaining about inequality for white straight men, I'm saying you've made the same generalisations that rile you up about gay people so much. We're actually on the same side in terms of inequality in the world.

There is always someone who had it harder. If I'd grown up as a gay man, I'd still of had the same family, grown up in the same area, lived a pretty similar life. A gay Muslim guy in Tehran would die for your freedoms. I'm not the enemy, bigots are the enemy, and they survive in all quarters of society.

I'm not saying you can fix the world. i'm just saying, don't expect the rest of us to give a fook about str8 white guy problems, when we've got much bigger problems to deal with. Str8 white guys have every reasource in the world to deal with str8 white guy problems,. don't put it on us. and don't act like str8 white guy problems are equal to everyone else's problems, cause everyone else has far less reasources to deal with their problems than str8 white guys.

You have the advantage, you have a privilege. Fix it yourselves. I'm just saying, asking the rest of us to fix YOUR problems is pretty ******ing cheeky.

Originally Posted by lostalex

I'm not saying you can fix the world. i'm just saying, don't expect the rest of us to give a fook about str8 white guy problems, when we've got much bigger problems to deal with. Str8 white guys have every reasource in the world to deal with str8 white guy problems,. don't put it on us. and don't act like str8 white guy problems are equal to everyone else's problems, cause everyone else has far less reasources to deal with their problems than str8 white guys.

You have the advantage, you have a privilege. Fix it yourselves. I'm just saying, asking the rest of us to fix YOUR problems is pretty ******ing cheeky.

You know I think you're pure awesome sauce, but this just doesn't tally with anything that I've written. I'm not asking you to fix anything or be interested in anything in my life, but when you make blanket statements about straight guys not wanting to pay child support, then I'll call you on it.

There are straight losers, and gay losers. Sexuality isn't the deciding factor.

I generally deal with my own problems. I'll talk things through with people, but I don't want anyone to fix anything for me, otherwise when do I get the chance to grow and learn as a person? The only thing I want from you, is not to label all straight guys as "dead-beat-dads". Not because I'm sticking up for my sexuality and racial group, but simply because you're wrong, and you're better than that.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

a fetus is not a life, it's just a growth, a parasite. That's my opinion.

A life becomes a life when it is capable of sustaining itself outside of the mother's body.

As long as it is reliant on the mother's body, it is part of the mother's body, it is not an independent life. It is just a growth on the mother's body and a woman should have complete control and decision making over her own body. If it was possible to transfer that growth to the father, then i think absolutely he should have the choice to take on that growth, but since that's not possible, all decisions should be with the mother/host.

Maybe some day it will be possible for men to carry children, but until that day comes, they have no right to tell women what to do with their bodies. If they don't like it then they should've worn a condom. period.

This is a good definition of life, it has to be self supporting otherwise the life is actually being sustained by the host (Mother) and as such she has all the choices ie to continue or to end. When that baby can sustain life on its own then it becomes a separate life and with that all the rights and freedoms that entails.

I do not personally believe in abortion for the sake of it (I was adopted and had my mother decided on a termination then I would never have been born) but there are many instances where the quality of life for the child will be so poor that it is almost cruel to continue with the pregnancy ie severe mental or physical damage or when the child is conceived through rape. in these cases the child will never have a chance of a normal life and so abortion in these extreme circumstances is justified.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes you can abort a baby
thats fair.

But
Assited Death has this problem of
others killing off a old relative

This is not a Game post

I agree with this, (though abortion isnt always fair, some women use it as a form of contraception which is totally wrong) though I get the point you making Sheriff, what about people with dementia, would their familes be able to make a decision to kill them off as they get increasinly burdensome, but then on the other hand you have the case of they guy with locked in syndrome who campaigned for the right to die, there would have to be some very strict guidelines were it to be introduced.

Originally Posted by Cherie

I agree with this, (though abortion isnt always fair, some women use it as a form of contraception which is totally wrong) though I get the point you making Sheriff, what about people with dementia, would their familes be able to make a decision to kill them off as they get increasinly burdensome, but then on the other hand you have the case of they guy with locked in syndrome who campaigned for the right to die, there would have to be some very strict guidelines were it to be introduced.

You made a massive distinction yourself. People wanting to bump of burdensome relatives is one thing, but people campaigning to be able to die peacefully and on their own terms is quite another.

[lostalex]

If you believe in souls, then all souls will exist, it has nothing to do with abortion.

If you are a buddhist then you know that your soul will continue forever, and abortion has nothing to do with it. If you are aborted then you'd just go on to the next suitable body.

Abortions do not kill souls, they just end the growth of a fetus.

You cannot kill a soul. that's my opinion.
If you believe in christianity, then it also means nothing to have an abortion, because according to christianity we are all created in God's image, so there are no mistakes. If you have an abortion, it is God's plan.

There is no religion on the planet that makes it wrong to have an abortion.

You cannot kill fairies or unicorns either, that are the known carriers of souls to their next body.