[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

A good result, with an ulterior motive isn't a good act in my book. It's a calculated act.

I don't think you really believe that. I think you know that we are all selfish animals in the end. And no matter the motivations, any work of good, even if it's done by someone very evil, is still 1 more work of good in the world. which is a good thing.

Hitler created a brilliant roadway system you know. The trains were always on time under Mussolini.

Albert Einstein was a horrible misogynist. He believed it his wife's duty to serve him.

Originally Posted by lostalex

I don't think you really believe that. I think you know that we are all selfish animals in the end. And no matter the motivations, any work of good, even if it's done by someone very evil, is still 1 more work of good in the world. which is a good thing.

Hitler created a brilliant roadway system you know. The trains were always on time under Mussolini.

Good results are different to good acts. Hitler didn't build the road system to help others, he built it to enable better services for him and his military, and the Mussolini train thing I was always lead to believe was a myth.

medicine sans frontiers is an example of an organisation that does good deeds for no ulterior motive, and finishes with good results.

The quote was about good people doing bad things anyway, so this is veering a little bit away from where I intended to take it.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Good results are different to good acts. Hitler didn't build the road system to help others, he built it to enable better services for him and his military, and the Mussolini train thing I was always lead to believe was a myth.

medicine sans frontiers is an example of an organisation that does good deeds for no ulterior motive, and finishes with good results.

The quote was about good people doing bad things anyway, so this is veering a little bit away from where my I intended to take it.

It's called Doctors Without Borders. stop capitulating to the french.

The point is, i'm sure there are plenty of doctors that are also pedophiles and wife beaters and rude assholes that are just horrible human beings. but they do good.

Does it matter why they do good? does it matter, if they do good just to get rich? or just to please their imaginary god? if they do it just out of their own thrill seeking? does it matter? Is their work any less good?

Perhaps some doctors just enjoy cutting into human flesh. does that make their life saving surgery any less good?

If we judged everything by motivation, what would survive that standard?

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not to go horribly off topic but the Mussolini train thing is true apparently, labour was actually very organised and disciplined under fascism in some sectors because the fascist workers syndicates basically had a monopoly on negotiations and labour disputes over the socialist or catholic unions

Cheers for adding to, and clearing that up, Matt.

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's called Doctors Without Borders. stop capitulating to the french.

The point is, i'm sure there are plenty of doctors that are also pedophiles and wife beaters and rude assholes that are just horrible human beings. but they do good.

Does it matter why they do good? does it matter, if they do good just to get rich? or just to please their imaginary god? if they do it just out of their own thrill seeking? does it matter? Is their work any less good?

Perhaps some doctors just enjoy cutting into human flesh. does that make their life saving surgery any less good?

If we judged everything by motivation, what would survive that standard?

Ju suis tres desole mon ami.

This has been turned completely around from the quote I posted, which was about what it takes for good people to do bad things.

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not to go horribly off topic but the Mussolini train thing is true apparently, labour was actually very organised and disciplined under fascism in some sectors because the fascist workers syndicates basically had a monopoly on negotiations and labour disputes over the socialist or catholic unions

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Cheers for adding to, and clearing that up, Matt.

Right, that bothered me, so I've looked at a few things and from what I can make out, the railway program that Mussolini claimed credit for, was actually started and nearly completed before he came to power. It was in a terrible state after WW1 so these repairs were very necessary. However, I can well believe that his government kept the unions in check - what kind of fascists are unable to deal with unions?