[Kizzy]

Seriously though There is a fine line, it is so easy to have your intent misconstrued as an offensive slur on a whole cross section of society or indeed a whole race...

[Razor]

I thought the whole thing was ridiculous.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

You make your own choice, Chuff. However, when it comes to history, then the views of Sam (and possibly yourself - I don't really know what your full views on race are, other than the fact you've defended Sam whilst I was having a discussion with him) are being consigned to history.

My views are exactly that ,and my choice

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

My views are exactly that ,and my choice

Exactly what? Sorry, I don't understand.

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by sampvt

What I meant was if you were a white British male would you date a black African princess or if you were a Chinese person would you date an aboriginal girl or a girl well outside your races beliefs and parameters.

I think most readers get my drift without my comments giving the race police another excuse to spout crap about my analysis of race.

Who are the race police and why attempt to dismiss or belittle the opposing argument with name calling?
Any ways..... Russell Brand can answer affirmative to what ever it is you meant.
Paul Welller can answer affirmative to your question.
Michael Caine can answer affirmative to your question.
As can Luke Goss, Adam Clayton and David Frost and in the USA the list is endless let alone the ordinary man on the street, Robert De Niro, George Lucas, Boris Becker, Justin Chambers, Robin Thicke, Brad Pitt, Clint Eastwood, David Moscow, Frank Langella, Ted Danson and more historically Mr Loving.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by cassieparis

Who are the race police and why attempt to dismiss or belittle the opposing argument with name calling?
Any ways..... Russell Brand can answer affirmative to what ever it is you meant.
Paul Welller can answer affirmative to your question.
Michael Caine can answer affirmative to your question.
As can Luke Goss, Adam Clayton and David Frost and in the USA the list is endless let alone the ordinary man on the street, Robert De Niro, George Lucas, Boris Becker, Justin Chambers, Robin Thicke, Brad Pitt, Clint Eastwood, David Moscow, Frank Langella, Ted Danson and historic Mr Loving.

Let it go now. If you want to get all bent out of shape because of racial discrimination, there are plenty of organisations that deal with actual discrimination far more relevant than this. I'm sure those causes would be grateful for some of the effort and time you've put into this non-event.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

You make your own choice, Chuff. However, when it comes to history, then the views of Sam (and possibly yourself - I don't really know what your full views on race are, other than the fact you've defended Sam whilst I was having a discussion with him) are being consigned to history.

Jesus....you seem to be promoting the fact that in the last 30yrs the world has been changed and evolved by the induction of things like racial equality, human rights and the politically correct ethos. Well it might serve you well to understand that people like Chuff and me grew up in an era that promoted free speech and double standards didn't exist.

For example we cant go to India and wear shoes in holy places, walk around in them head uncovered and must treat cows as holy and in the same breath we could and would get locked up for saying anything bad about Hinduism or indeed any holy or ethnic group in their country. Yet with the same breath they can come here and do all of the afore mentioned in our fair land and get paid for doing it at the same time. Whether that's right or wrong is not up for discussion, but discussions cause arguments, facts solve them.

In the olden days we spoke out on such a subjects freely,e but the likes of Blaire and his cronies make us all look like twats if we even dare to air our views. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. In the past my dad colloquially referred to blacks as darkies, thank god he isn't here now as he would be hung drawn and quartered, but the reason why I mentioned it was that he saw no malice in using such terminology. Do gooders today have internal views that are never aired and in many cases, they never match what comes out of their mouths. We are becoming a society of politically correct puppets. So for you to say your views are right and we are wrong, what you mean to say is that what you were taught and believe may not match up to our views so nobody will ever reign supreme on either issue.

[Kizzy]

chuff and cassie I wouldn't waste your time being drawn out on issues, your feelings are very clear. The whole debate is a grey area there is never going to be a right and a wrong answer... everything is subject to interpretation.

Originally Posted by sampvt

Jesus....you seem to be promoting the fact that in the last 30yrs the world has been changed and evolved by the induction of things like racial equality, human rights and the politically correct ethos. Well it might serve you well to understand that people like Chuff and me grew up in an era that promoted free speech and double standards didn't exist.

For example we cant go to India and wear shoes in holy places, walk around in them head uncovered and must treat cows as holy and in the same breath we could and would get locked up for saying anything bad about Hinduism or indeed any holy or ethnic group in their country. Yet with the same breath they can come here and do all of the afore mentioned in our fair land and get paid for doing it at the same time. Whether that's right or wrong is not up for discussion, but discussions cause arguments, facts solve them.

In the olden days we spoke out on such a subjects freely,e but the likes of Blaire and his cronies make us all look like twats if we even dare to air our views. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. In the past my dad colloquially referred to blacks as darkies, thank god he isn't here now as he would be hung drawn and quartered, but the reason why I mentioned it was that he saw no malice in using such terminology. Do gooders today have internal views that are never aired and in many cases, they never match what comes out of their mouths. We are becoming a society of politically correct puppets. So for you to say your views are right and we are wrong, what you mean to say is that what you were taught and believe may not match up to our views so nobody will ever reign supreme on either issue.

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

My point was simply that in one breath we all promote free speech and opinions, on the other we are educated not to utter a word if it might offend. My era is different from your era so latitude must be given on both quarters. I was at apins to explain that there is no right or wrong, merely that others perceptions of opinionated views can be misconstrued and twisted to suit whoever wants to twist it. Is it wrong to say you would not date a black person, in my view no it isn't. \in your view yes it is. How the hell can anyone be right or wrong, it depends on what moral codes you live by.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

Ouch!!!!!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Jesus....you seem to be promoting the fact that in the last 30yrs the world has been changed and evolved by the induction of things like racial equality, human rights and the politically correct ethos. Well it might serve you well to understand that people like Chuff and me grew up in an era that promoted free speech and double standards didn't exist.

For example we cant go to India and wear shoes in holy places, walk around in them head uncovered and must treat cows as holy and in the same breath we could and would get locked up for saying anything bad about Hinduism or indeed any holy or ethnic group in their country. Yet with the same breath they can come here and do all of the afore mentioned in our fair land and get paid for doing it at the same time. Whether that's right or wrong is not up for discussion, but discussions cause arguments, facts solve them.

In the olden days we spoke out on such a subjects freely,e but the likes of Blaire and his cronies make us all look like twats if we even dare to air our views. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. In the past my dad colloquially referred to blacks as darkies, thank god he isn't here now as he would be hung drawn and quartered, but the reason why I mentioned it was that he saw no malice in using such terminology. Do gooders today have internal views that are never aired and in many cases, they never match what comes out of their mouths. We are becoming a society of politically correct puppets. So for you to say your views are right and we are wrong, what you mean to say is that what you were taught and believe may not match up to our views so nobody will ever reign supreme on either issue.

All very true, Ithank God my Mum and Dad are no longer here to see what our country is now,My Dad fought in the war to help save free speech ,and democracy

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

chuff and cassie I wouldn't waste your time being drawn out on issues, your feelings are very clear. The whole debate is a grey area there is never going to be a right and a wrong answer... everything is subject to interpretation.

Yes of course it is ,but everyone views should be allowed to be teier own ,with do-gooders putting their twopence in it

[Livia]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

All very true, Ithank God my Mum and Dad are no longer here to see what our country is now,My Dad fought in the war to help save free speech ,and democracy

... and to defeat the Nazis, don't forget. And this country wasn't alone. It was supported by lots of other countries... and soldiers of all races.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

chuff and cassie I wouldn't waste your time being drawn out on issues, your feelings are very clear. The whole debate is a grey area there is never going to be a right and a wrong answer... everything is subject to interpretation.

Exactly. Interpretation? Some would find the comment 'I don't find black people attractive' to be far too similar to 'I think all black people are ugly'. In essence those two statements are the same but one would be interpreted as a personal choice where as the other would be considered highly offensive.

[Scream]

not gonna read what anyone else has said cause too many pages but i think Jemima saying Gina probably wouldn't go out with a white man could be considered offensive. she's assuming just because she's black she wouldn't want to date a white person. Her only reasoning for that is that she thinks white people don't date black people. EVERYONE IS EQUAL :'( :'( :'(

Originally Posted by sampvt

My point was simply that in one breath we all promote free speech and opinions, on the other we are educated not to utter a word if it might offend. My era is different from your era so latitude must be given on both quarters. I was at apins to explain that there is no right or wrong, merely that others perceptions of opinionated views can be misconstrued and twisted to suit whoever wants to twist it. Is it wrong to say you would not date a black person, in my view no it isn't. \in your view yes it is. How the hell can anyone be right or wrong, it depends on what moral codes you live by.

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

Preach it

I find it amazing the way some people hark back to some bygone era like it was so much better back then. I'm from the Chuff/Sam era too (just) and let me tell you for a black person it was horrendous. My father who came to this country in 1960 told me stories that would make you weep but according to some on this forum it was so much better back then, the PC brigade didn't exist back then, and they're to blame for everything. Bloody do-gooders.

I'm so sick of this argument and I'm so sick of the level of ignorance from people. Sam, my father is racist too. When you're dad talked of 'darkies' did you correct him? I corrected my father when spouted his bull****. If you didn't then can you explain to us why? After all he was wrong to use such language why did you let him get away with it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

Yeah, in Barcelona they won't let you inside some of the churches if you have your shoulders uncovered

[Kizzy]

Well this thread flew off into the stratosphere didn't it?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Preach it

I find it amazing the way some people hark back to some bygone era like it was so much better back then. I'm from the Chuff/Sam era too (just) and let me tell you for a black person it was horrendous. My father who came to this country in 1960 told me stories that would make you weep but according to some on this forum it was so much better back then, the PC brigade didn't exist back then, and they're to blame for everything. Bloody do-gooders.

I'm so sick of this argument and I'm so sick of the level of ignorance from people. Sam, my father is racist too. When you're dad talked of 'darkies' did you correct him? I corrected my father when spouted his bull****. If you didn't then can you explain to us why? After all he was wrong to use such language why did you let him get away with it?

This as well. I tend to roll my eyes at the same few who keep banging on about the 1950s and '60s being this happy utopia where everyone got along when they totally disregard the horrific intolerance and poverty of that era.

Things are a damnsite better now, despite what some may say. I'd rather live in a century where people are actually accepted for who they are.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Preach it

I find it amazing the way some people hark back to some bygone era like it was so much better back then. I'm from the Chuff/Sam era too (just) and let me tell you for a black person it was horrendous. My father who came to this country in 1960 told me stories that would make you weep but according to some on this forum it was so much better back then, the PC brigade didn't exist back then, and they're to blame for everything. Bloody do-gooders.

I'm so sick of this argument and I'm so sick of the level of ignorance from people. Sam, my father is racist too. When you're dad talked of 'darkies' did you correct him? I corrected my father when spouted his bull****. If you didn't then can you explain to us why? After all he was wrong to use such language why did you let him get away with it?

I have nothing to add. I just think these two perfect posts needed repeating.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

All very true, Ithank God my Mum and Dad are no longer here to see what our country is now,My Dad fought in the war to help save free speech ,and democracy

There isn't free speech in Britain. Hate speech is a punishable offense. I don't know where you got this free speech jargon from.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Racism is getting out of control, or should I say, what people perceive racism to be is getting out of control. It is getting so we cant even mention preferences without some Blacks jumping on the band wagon. They can say anything to us like your skin is pasty and needs sun or your redness is laughable.....would we get away with commenting on their skin colour, straight hair extensions and or the colour of the makeup they use.

Seems to me that those coloured people that use blond wigs or extensions, use pasty makeup to make them look lighter and effectively try to go whiter are the very people that seem to be ashamed of their own colour or even race and have no rights to play the race card for such an innoxious comment like Jemima made.

I am defo not racist but I am against racism that is used to gain an advantage in life. Gina seems to think she is above everyone and dresses and tries to look more European than her other friends. This looks to me like she isn't all that comfortable in her own skin colour yet she champions the black racism issue to such a degree that its laughable.

"Coloured people"??? OMG!