[Benjamin]

Just out of interest has anyone passing criticism of this book actually read it? Not saying I condone what this book sounds like it is about but without reading it I find it hard actually knowing what is in the book and to have much of an opinion on it.

[Lee.]

Yes I read it as part of my bookclub recently

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yes I read it as part of my bookclub recently

Did you actually?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't know how they have the cheek to call themselves human let alone christian
There would be uproar if someone advocated mistreating a dog like this, but as it's their own flesh and blood that in a warped way makes it acceptable?

Totally agree.

They seem to think their Christian faith makes anything they're told in the name of that faith an acceptable way to behave. It seems dont want to think for themselves they just want to follow. Its crazy.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Ben

Did you actually?

No I actually did not

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ben

Just out of interest has anyone passing criticism of this book actually read it? Not saying I condone what this book sounds like it is about but without reading it I find it and actually knowing what is in the book I find it hard to have to great an opinion.

No I haven't read it but these are actual quotes from the book, I think having read those quotes alone gives anyone the right to critisize both the book and the authors for child abuse and recommending you abuse your children to other parents :

The Pearls recommend switching infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe switching their own 4 month old daughter (p.9).
At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of “No” with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree.

On p.60 they recommend switching babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them “to get up.”
But what of the grouch who would rather complain than sleep? Get tough. Be firm with him. Never put him down and then allow him to get up. If, after putting him down, you remember he just woke up, do not reward his complaining by allowing him to get up.For the sake of consistency in training, you must follow through. He may not be able to sleep, but he can be trained to lie there quietly. He will very quickly come to know that any time he is laid down there is no alternative but to stay put. To get up is to be on the firing line and get switched back down.

On p.59 they recommend spanking a 3 year old until he is “totally broken.”
She then administers about ten slow, patient licks on his bare legs. He cries in pain. If he continues to show defiance by jerking around and defending himself, or by expressing anger, then she will wait a moment and again lecture him and again spank him. When it is obvious he is totally broken, she will hand him the rag and very calmly say, “Johnny, clean up your mess.” He should very contritely wipe up the water.

http://whynottrainachild.com/2010/04...es-from-ttuac/

[Niamh.]

and to add, I certainly wouldn't be giving those people my money by buying their book

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No I haven't read it but these are actual quotes from the book, I think having read those quotes alone gives anyone the right to critisize both the book and the authors for child abuse and recommending you abuse your children to other parents :

The Pearls recommend switching infants only a few months old on their bare skin. They describe switching their own 4 month old daughter (p.9).
At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of “No” with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree.

On p.60 they recommend switching babies who cannot sleep and are crying, and to never allow them “to get up.”
But what of the grouch who would rather complain than sleep? Get tough. Be firm with him. Never put him down and then allow him to get up. If, after putting him down, you remember he just woke up, do not reward his complaining by allowing him to get up.For the sake of consistency in training, you must follow through. He may not be able to sleep, but he can be trained to lie there quietly. He will very quickly come to know that any time he is laid down there is no alternative but to stay put. To get up is to be on the firing line and get switched back down.

On p.59 they recommend spanking a 3 year old until he is “totally broken.”
She then administers about ten slow, patient licks on his bare legs. He cries in pain. If he continues to show defiance by jerking around and defending himself, or by expressing anger, then she will wait a moment and again lecture him and again spank him. When it is obvious he is totally broken, she will hand him the rag and very calmly say, “Johnny, clean up your mess.” He should very contritely wipe up the water.

http://whynottrainachild.com/2010/04...es-from-ttuac/

Yes but without actually reading the whole book it's hard to fully know the full story of it. It would be like having an opinions on a film you have never watched but heard about from everyone else.

I'm not saying this book isn't down right ludicrous, it sounds awful, but I myself find it hard to gain a proper opinion on it unless I were to read it.

[Ammi]

..what I don't understand is how these things can be published and allowed to be sold...you will always get lunatics/extremes, whether it be under the guise of 'religion' or not...and I'm sure that some 'christians' still have archaic 'Magdalene' views on what makes a child a Christian child...as they're are some very cruel/bazaar traditions in other religions as well..but they shouldn't be allowed to 'sell' those views to others and they should be closely investigated by authorities...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ben

Yes but without actually reading the whole book it's hard to fully know the full story of it. It would be like having an opinions on a film you have never watched but heard about from everyone else.

I'm not saying this book isn't down right ludicrous, it sounds awful, but I myself find it hard to gain a proper opinion on it unless I were to read it.

I don't get what you mean by that tbh, this is a parenting advice manual not a story, I've read some of their advice, that is quite frankly abusive, there may well be some gems in there but that's not the point, the point is there is some horrendous and abusive stuff in there and for that alone, these people should be arrested imo, it doesn't matter an iota what else is in the book

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ben

Yes but without actually reading the whole book it's hard to fully know the full story of it. It would be like having an opinions on a film you have never watched but heard about from everyone else.

I'm not saying this book isn't down right ludicrous, it sounds awful, but I myself find it hard to gain a proper opinion on it unless I were to read it.

..but isn't this a forum of discussing things, though Ben...and I know it's not identical but isn't it similar to saying..oh, you're not married, so can't really comment on marriage..or don't have children, so can't comment on parenthood..etc, that sort of thing....

[Niamh.]

Here's their advice for if your child has a toilet accident :

They recommend hosing off a child outside in order to clean him if he continues to soil himself.
So, my suggestion was that the father explain to the boy that, now that he was a man, he would no longer be washed in the house. He was too big and too stinky to be cleaned by the babywipes. From now on, he would be washed outside with a garden hose.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but isn't this a forum of discussing things, though Ben...and I know it's not identical but isn't it similar to saying..oh, you're not married, so can't really comment on marriage..or don't have children, so can't comment on parenthood..etc, that sort of thing....

Reread what I wrote. I'm not saying you shouldn't have opinions on it. I said I find it hard to make a full opinion without reading the whole book.

And lynch me all you want, some of the things about the book are actually not that bad.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ben

Reread what I wrote. I'm not saying you shouldn't have opinions on it. I said I find it hard to make a full opinion without reading the whole book.

And lynch me all you want, some of the things about the book are actually not that bad.

But it doesn't matter if some of the things in the book aren't that bad imo because there are some things in there, that these people are passing out as advice on how to raise a child that are jail worthy, do you see what I'm saying? In this case imo I don't think whether or not you read the book matters

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ben

Reread what I wrote. I'm not saying you shouldn't have opinions on it. I said I find it hard to make a full one without reading the whole book.

And lynch me all you want, some of the things about the book are actually not that bad.

..no one's 'lynching' anyone...for me it doesn't matter what the not so bad things are because of the messages and impact of the bad ones, which a third set of parents have just been found guilty of murdering their child because they believed in the book as a 'manual' for Christian parenting..yeah, that's gullible/idiotic etc but for me it's a reason why the book shouldn't be allowed for anyone to read...laws have been made/changed when just one person has been harmed by something and this is now three times..so anything good in it is irrelevant to me....

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But it doesn't matter if some of the things in the book aren't that bad imo because there are some things in there, that these people are passing out as advice on how to raise a child that are jail worthy, do you see what I'm saying? In this case imo I don't think whether or not you read the book matters

In my opinion it does. I'll leave it at that.

[GiRTh]

I havent read the book but the danger, for me, is in Christian crazies taking the book literally. If you read up on the children who have died it seems their parent didnt interpret the advise in the book, they took it literally. That is very dangerous.

EDIT: Apparently, one of the kids who died was beaten for hours for mispronouncing a word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Lydia_Schatz

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ben

In my opinion it does. I'll leave it at that.

Why are you getting annoyed with me? Jeez, I'm actually trying to discuss it with you but you obviously wanted to make your point and leave without any debate at all

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why are you getting annoyed with me? Jeez, I'm actually trying to discuss it with you but you obviously wanted to make your point and leave without any debate at all

I'm not annoyed at you.

I just don't often stay too long in these types of threads because I find I have to try and justify myself too much and I haven't the patience for it normally. So I just say my point and leave.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I havent read the book but the danger, for me, is in Christian crazies taking the book literally. If you read up on the children who have died it seems their parent didnt interpret the advise in the book, they took it literally. That is very dangerous.

I would like to highlight this though.

[Niamh.]

Did you read the actual quotes from the book though? Even if you follow that advise to the letter, it's still child abuse and no matter what else they say in that book, it's sullied by their advocating of child abuse

[Vicky.]

I havent read any of these books, and I dont intend to. The snippets are enough to tell me what they are like, and what the people who follow the 'advice' are like too. ****ing assholes who don't deserve to have children. I hope one day the parents are treat the way they treat their children..lets see if they think its acceptable then.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Did you read the actual quotes from the book though? Even if you follow that advise to the letter, it's still child abuse and no matter what else they say in that book, it's sullied by their advocating of child abuse

That is, I think, what Ben is trying to say. IF you are a level headed person you interpret the book and adapt it to your circumstances but if you are a Christian crazie who wants to be told what to do and then blame the consequences on the Lord moving in mysterious ways then you take the book literally and beat the hell out of your kids for the slightest thing. In that context the book is not so dangerous.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

That is, I think, what Ben is trying to say. IF you are a level headed person you interpret the book and adapt it to your circumstances but if you are a Christian crazie who wants to be told what to do and then blame the consequences on the Lord moving in mysterious ways then you take the book literally and beat hte hell out of your kids for the slightest thing. In that context the book is not so dangerous.

Is it? To me he's saying that if you haven't read the book you can't say it's a worthless heap of s**t, I think I can, after reading some quotes from it

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I havent read the book but the danger, for me, is in Christian crazies taking the book literally. If you read up on the children who have died it seems their parent didnt interpret the advise in the book, they took it literally. That is very dangerous.

EDIT: Apparently, one of the kids who died was beaten for hours for mispronouncing a word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Lydia_Schatz

..yeah I agree but for me the danger is any crazies though, not just 'christian' ones with any book like this which has been and is still being allowed...maybe, a portion of it is interpretation but crazies don't have the ability to interpret, that's why they're 'extreme'..and if just one child was harmed directly from an interpretation of this book, then that seriously needs to be looked at and acted on...