[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't feel the need to either defend or explain myself. Your whole tone is aggressive, and has been previously on other threads any time religion is mentioned. I don't feel people of my particular faith have ever had a privileged position, nor do I feel particularly exposed now. I'm not quite sure what kind of debate you're hoping to have when all you do is insult.

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

Yet trolls can play their cards wherever and whenever they choose? Kiss my arse.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

What do you believe in,Catweazle? Apart from the hideousness and irredeemability of existence. I'd call you a Nihilist, but I don't know how far considered your thoughts are. You tend to spout vox pop.

Surely everyone needs something to believe in?

Are you saying everyone needs religion or spirituality? Can we not function on logic?

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Are you saying everyone needs religion or spirituality? Can we not function on logic?

Yeah, of course we can. But I personally think life would be a lot emptier if we didn't believe we could do something special. Not everyone that bases their life on "logic" is fully aware of the arguments to that logic, and in a fully balanced view, those arguments should be considered. Don't ever fall in to the trap of seeing anything in balck and white.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

Why do people need to defend their personal beliefs?

Originally Posted by Kyle

Are you saying everyone needs religion or spirituality? Can we not function on logic?

Can we not open our minds to the possibility of things we can't see or touch?

As I said, would many of the great inventors have got anywhere if they sat back and thought "Oh, that's ridiculous and impossible"?

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Why do people need to defend their personal beliefs?



Can we not open our minds to the possibility of things we can't see or touch?

As I said, would many of the great inventors have got anywhere if they sat back and thought "Oh, that's ridiculous and impossible"?

Was going to add something to this, actually I don't need to.

[Kazanne]

I wont even debate in here ,it's too hostile,all I know is what I believe is up to me,dont need to explain it so people can take the piss

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Why do people need to defend their personal beliefs?



Can we not open our minds to the possibility of things we can't see or touch?

As I said, would many of the great inventors have got anywhere if they sat back and thought "Oh, that's ridiculous and impossible"?

But wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of faith? By opening myself up to the small possibility that the one faith I've picked could be right but still maintaining it's probably not I still don't really have faith.

Do you have an open mind about all the other religions in the history of mankind?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kyle

But wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of faith? By opening myself up to the small possibility that the one faith I've picked could be right but still maintaining it's probably not I still don't really have faith.

Do you have an open mind about all the other religions in the history of mankind?

That wasn't my point.

My point was about not being completely closed off to the possibilities of things we can't see or touch.

Being educated on religion and other faiths opens your mind to other cultures and makes you a better and more educated person for it. Not necessarily to believe everything, that wasn't my point. We can be part of one culture and broaden our horizons by learning about others and take interest in others. You don't have to join/take part in, but you don't have to ignore it either.

It was also directed at some of the disparaging comments about believing in these things, they could open their minds to the possibilities. Not sit there and say they believe or to choose a religion but not be so narrow minded that they cast it all aside as though it's worthless.

Also, having faith or being in touch with spirituality doesn't always lead to an organised religion.

[Kyle]

Of course there will be things we don't know about and haven't discovered yet but what's the point of conjecture? I'm sure the possibilities are endless if the person has the imagination to match it.

I just disagreed with the principle that everyone needs to believe in something that cannot be scientifically nailed down.

Maybe you should ask people of faith are they open to the possibility that they could be wrong.

[Nedusa]

I don't have a problem with religion which I consider a personal thing like spirituality something that shapes and defines our outlook on life. Different religions are just different interpretations of this. Providing these choices enrich our lives and the lives of people we meet then fine.

What I do have a problem with however is organised religion as it is responsible for innumerable crimes against humanity...

But that's another thread for another time...!!!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I don't have a problem with religion which I consider a personal thing like spirituality something that shapes and defines our outlook on life. Different religions are just different interpretations of this. Providing these choices enrich our lives and the lives of people we meet then fine.
What I do have a problem with however is organised religion as it is responsible for innumerable crimes against humanity...

But that's another thread for another time...!!!

..yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it, Nedusa...I'm not really religious as such but I think that for some, it's a good thing because they're believing in something that makes them better people and want to be better people.....

[Me. I Am Salman]

Why do some atheists expect everyone to act and think like them?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I just disagreed with the principle that everyone needs to believe in something that cannot be scientifically nailed down.

Maybe you should ask people of faith are they open to the possibility that they could be wrong.

No, no, no. I never said everyone needs to believe in something.

I said people shouldn't be so closed minded as to call someone who believes in something beyond human comprehension mentally ill or whatever (not you personally but you get my point). There was a time computers and mobile phones would've been thought of as magic after all.

Being open minded doesn't mean find something to believe in or believe in everything, it means don't dismiss something because it's beyond human comprehension as many things have been in the past.

I don't need to ask people of faith anything, my point was directed at your point is all. I would say someone of faith has already taken into account the possibility of them being wrong but has "faith" hence the word. The very fact what they believe in may not be able to be proven is proof enough it's been taken into consideration but they still have faith in it.

Science isn't the be all and end all of life.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

I see no reason to explain myself to you because you're not really interested in my point of view. Your mind is firmly closed. And frankly, continuing claim that I am playing the persecution card is unacceptable and rude and says rather more about you than it says about me.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

But wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of faith? By opening myself up to the small possibility that the one faith I've picked could be right but still maintaining it's probably not I still don't really have faith.

Do you have an open mind about all the other religions in the history of mankind?

I think, and certainly to me, the faith that I have picked (and it's not anything remotely organised) is the right one for me - I may even be in a minority of one, and I have no doubt about it. If you look at many religions, they start to have a common thread.

Meh to prophets, tbh....they only interpret. (In my opinion!) I'll interpret for myself, based on surprisingly common principles.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

No, no, no. I never said everyone needs to believe in something.

I said people shouldn't be so closed minded as to call someone who believes in something beyond human comprehension mentally ill or whatever (not you personally but you get my point). There was a time computers and mobile phones would've been thought of as magic after all.

I don't need to ask people of faith anything, my point was directed at your point is all. I would say someone of faith has already taken into account the possibility of them being wrong but has "faith" hence the word. The very fact what they believe in may not be able to be proven is proof enough it's been taken into consideration but they still have faith in it.

I know but you attached yourself to my reply to the person who actually did make the statement that everybody needs to believe in something. That's why I was In this thread in the first place not to challenge people's personal beliefs.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

I think, and certainly to me, the faith that I have picked (and it's not anything remotely organised) is the right one for me - I may even be in a minority of one, and I have no doubt about it. If you look at many religions, they start to have a common thread.

Meh to prophets, tbh....they only interpret. (In my opinion!) I'll interpret for myself, based on surprisingly common principles.

What is your faith if you don't mind asking. (I'm not looking for confrontation btw I'm genuinely curious)

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

What is your faith if you don't mind asking. (I'm not looking for confrontation btw I'm genuinely curious)

Haha, ok, it is particular to me though, and it's quite possible you will think i'm entirely mad. You can PM if you prefer :P

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Haha, ok, it is particular to me though, and it's quite possible you will think i'm entirely mad. You can PM if you prefer :P

Sure Jezzy, whatever's best for you. I'll send one right away.

[Shaun]

Is there a term for "atheist who really cannot be arsed with telling others what to believe"? Because Ricky Gervais and threads like this are just really damaging atheism and making it seem so ****ing pedantic

[Me. I Am Salman]

^ that a the only type of atheism which should exist

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Is there a term for "atheist who really cannot be arsed with telling others what to believe"? Because Ricky Gervais and threads like this are just really damaging atheism and making it seem so ****ing pedantic

Sense.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

That wasn't my point.

My point was about not being completely closed off to the possibilities of things we can't see or touch.

Being educated on religion and other faiths opens your mind to other cultures and makes you a better and more educated person for it. Not necessarily to believe everything, that wasn't my point. We can be part of one culture and broaden our horizons by learning about others and take interest in others. You don't have to join/take part in, but you don't have to ignore it either.

It was also directed at some of the disparaging comments about believing in these things, they could open their minds to the possibilities. Not sit there and say they believe or to choose a religion but not be so narrow minded that they cast it all aside as though it's worthless.

Also, having faith or being in touch with spirituality doesn't always lead to an organised religion.

..I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread, Marsh and agree with most of what you say..I think that a lot of 'religious' people are very open minded in that they can believe in something that has no explanation because not everything in life can be explained..that's why it's 'belief' and belief can be a belief in anything and it's only a bad thing...(particularly in religion..)..when someone in that religion misuses it because they choose to pick out any negatives in it and just concentrate on those, which is being extreme...but they aren't the 'average/typical' religious person, that's why they're called extremists, they choose to put aside most of the good and positive teachings in their religion but there are people without any religion at all who do that anyway...


..personally I know some really good people who are religious and ok, maybe they don't take their religion to 'the letter of the law' and some people would say, you can't pick and choose the bits you want to...but I don't see anything wrong with that either because they're just taking their religion as an inspirational type thing to try to be a better person and also when they have fairly rubbish things happen in their lives, to help them get through those times because it gives them something to focus on, other than their emotional pain...how can that be bad/wrong..?...we all have to use 'crutches' at some point in our lives, whether it be friends/family/our job that we can focus on to distract and absorb us etc...for some people it's their religion and that's perfectly fine as well, it's as fine as anything else is...and not all people who have a faith, take the negative stuff and apply it to their lives because that wouldn't do anything but negative things to them..what they want and have and project onto others is something very positive in that they are quite often very good, admirable and generally caring and understanding people....

..anyway, I never get into religious discussions..this is my 'pet hate'.....


..but yeah, good posts, Marsh...

[Jords]

I like the concept of 'praying' to channel inner strength and to think and support loved ones in time of need, if it helps an individual in their situation Im all for it.

In terms of for religion purposes, it doesnt affect me so I dont mind what people do.