[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jords

I like the concept of 'praying' to channel inner strength and to think and support loved ones in time of need, if it helps an individual in their situation Im all for it.

In terms of for religion purposes, it doesnt affect me so I dont mind what people do.

..why can't I say it with fewer words like this.....but yeah Jords, you're right as usual...

[Jords]

We love all your words Ammi

[arista]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

That wasn't my point.

My point was about not being completely closed off to the possibilities of things we can't see or touch.

Being educated on religion and other faiths opens your mind to other cultures and makes you a better and more educated person for it. Not necessarily to believe everything, that wasn't my point. We can be part of one culture and broaden our horizons by learning about others and take interest in others. You don't have to join/take part in, but you don't have to ignore it either.

It was also directed at some of the disparaging comments about believing in these things, they could open their minds to the possibilities. Not sit there and say they believe or to choose a religion but not be so narrow minded that they cast it all aside as though it's worthless.

Also, having faith or being in touch with spirituality doesn't always lead to an organised religion.

Lets put it flat on the table Marsh
Science proves there is No God
If some power started speaking out of the Sky
I would track the Speakers.



I can see why people follow a old fable book
But many of us are at a better Level in Life.

[Ammi]

..also lol..I'm not directing this at anyone on this forum specifically, but a lot of atheists do often seem to speak with a feeling of 'superiority' over someone who has a belief and be quite insulting because they feel that those people are weak, or delusional or whatever... basically saying things that can only aim to make people who do have faiths and beliefs feel fairly stupid and rubbish about themselves, which is not a very 'superior' quality in people who don't have those beliefs..where is the value in trying to make people feel bad about themselves..where is the superiority in that...that doesn't make them 'better people', but a lot of people who do have a faith, gain very positive things from that faith which does make them better people and also much happier people than if they didn't have it...

...that isn't all atheists obviously, but there are some very intolerant ones.... and yeah, there are also some vey intolerant religious people as well but both of those types of people are very extreme because they don't allow for any views or beliefs other than their own....


..ok, I'm done lol...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jords

We love all your words Ammi

..LOL.....

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..also lol..I'm not directing this at anyone on this forum specifically, but a lot of atheists do often seem to speak with a feeling of 'superiority' over someone who has a belief and be quite insulting because they feel that those people are weak, or delusional or whatever... basically saying things that can only aim to make people who do have faiths and beliefs feel fairly stupid and rubbish about themselves, which is not a very 'superior' quality in people who don't have those beliefs..where is the value in trying to make people feel bad about themselves..where is the superiority in that...that doesn't make them 'better people', but a lot of people who do have a faith, gain very positive things from that faith which does make them better people and also much happier people than if they didn't have it...

...that isn't all atheists obviously, but there are some very intolerant ones.... and yeah, there are also some vey intolerant religious people as well but both of those types of people are very extreme because they don't allow for any views or beliefs other than their own....


..ok, I'm done lol...

If you look at atheism and religion as a sort of 50/50 pov then you would be correct but its not. Ask any religious person about another religion and you will see their attitude change, ask them about people who believe in say aliens or dragons and watch them change.

Belief in gods and such is so baseless and so obviously a product of an age where man could not explain much, where life ended quickly and people were fearful. Go to any forum where a debate on religion occurs and you will quickly see that religious people can offer no reason for their beliefs, usually you get the "why are you attacking me angle" or the "well it works for me and thats all I know" - the main reason for this is because their parents brought them up like this and often when pushed they have no real reason for their belief.

No one cares what people believe but they do care when religion is in our schools and politics and stops getting privilege. Eradicate it from there and just like being a star trek fan no one will care what you think.

Also remember that every religious person is an atheist for every other god man has created so atheists are everyone.

[Nedusa]

You started this thread by asking what was the point of praying but reading the latter posts perhaps this thread should have been titled what is the point of religion as it has become more of a debate about the usefullness or point of religion.

Yesterday I accused people who pray as being seriously misguided although I used stronger language than that and was roundly condemned as being offensive for likening the action of praying to a possible mental aberration. It seems like people do like to pray for a variety of reasons including personal faith and spirituality.

I think most if not all people are aware faith holds no logic and is at odds with science but as humans we still hold the ability to think beyond what we can prove and religion or faith is the way we aspire to be something beyond what we can touch.

I personally do not hold to any organised religion preferring instead to keep my religious and spiritual beliefs to myself.

The Atheist v Theist debate will continue and I for one hope mainstream religions will continue to decline as to me they are instruments of control,profit and manipulation.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by arista

Lets put it flat on the table Marsh
Science proves there is No God
If some power started speaking out of the Sky
I would track the Speakers.



I can see why people follow a old fable book
But many of us are at a better Level in Life.

great post.

I like the line, in god we trust, everyone else pays cash!.

Originally Posted by Shaun

Is there a term for "atheist who really cannot be arsed with telling others what to believe"? Because Ricky Gervais and threads like this are just really damaging atheism and making it seem so ****ing pedantic

Yeah, a thread on a forum is really taking a hammer blow to atheism. Hopefully the belief that there isn't a god, can survive someone having and sharing opinions that you don't agree with on the internet. I don't agree with catweasels opinions in this thread either, but atheism is a broad church, and expecting a consensus amongst atheists is like trying to herd cats

Ricky Gervais also damages atheism? That's just nonsense. People believe whatever they like, and the fact that Ricky Gervais talks openly about it in a way that you and some other people don't like, is not going to have any affect on anything or anyone.

What does "damaging atheism" even mean?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

You started this thread by asking what was the point of praying but reading the latter posts perhaps this thread should have been titled what is the point of religion as it has become more of a debate about the usefullness or point of religion.

Yesterday I accused people who pray as being seriously misguided although I used stronger language than that and was roundly condemned as being offensive for likening the action of praying to a possible mental aberration. It seems like people do like to pray for a variety of reasons including personal faith and spirituality.

I think most if not all people are aware faith holds no logic and is at odds with science but as humans we still hold the ability to think beyond what we can prove and religion or faith is the way we aspire to be something beyond what we can touch.

I personally do not hold to any organised religion preferring instead to keep my religious and spiritual beliefs to myself.

The Atheist v Theist debate will continue and I for one hope mainstream religions will continue to decline as to me they are instruments of control,profit and manipulation.

To me I find I personally have a conflict if interest with this. While I have no problem with people having personal faith I am also delighted to see the shackles of religious institution being lifted from the Western World and would be more than happy to see it gone for good.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

You started this thread by asking what was the point of praying but reading the latter posts perhaps this thread should have been titled what is the point of religion as it has become more of a debate about the usefullness or point of religion.

Yesterday I accused people who pray as being seriously misguided although I used stronger language than that and was roundly condemned as being offensive for likening the action of praying to a possible mental aberration. It seems like people do like to pray for a variety of reasons including personal faith and spirituality.

I think most if not all people are aware faith holds no logic and is at odds with science but as humans we still hold the ability to think beyond what we can prove and religion or faith is the way we aspire to be something beyond what we can touch.

I personally do not hold to any organised religion preferring instead to keep my religious and spiritual beliefs to myself.

The Atheist v Theist debate will continue and I for one hope mainstream religions will continue to decline as to me they are instruments of control,profit and manipulation.

The thread has no rules and can go which way. There seems to be no appetite to defend praying in terms of "how it works" and evidence thereof and as most people realise its a self medication process against the relentless tide of life and our insignificance.

As i stated we are all atheist really, religious people just have one god they are not atheist about. We are all atheist to dragons, fairies and goblins.

[Nedusa]

If you are a theist then you believe in at least one God although theism is now more commonly held as a monotheistic doctrine ie believing in just one God.

Atheism is a rejection of Theism (one god or many) so believing in just one God (whilst not believing in others) technically does not make you atheist....

But Dragons,Fairies and goblins well not sure if they qualify as Deities !!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

If you are a theist then you believe in at least one God although theism is now more commonly held as a monotheistic doctrine ie believing in just one God.

Atheism is a rejection of Theism (one god or many) so believing in just one God (whilst not believing in others) technically does not make you atheist....

But Dragons,Fairies and goblins well not sure if they qualify as Deities !!

How are you on Leprechauns?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jords

We love all your words Ammi

we do

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

A Top Book
I Love

My daughter thinks he's great, I got her one of his books for christmas...ironically

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

My daughter thinks he's great, I got her one of his books for christmas...ironically

She Is Most Wise

[Kizzy]

Praying is just a bastardisation of chanting.... we all love a good chant.
As ye will it so mote it be, and so on and so forth.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by arista

Lets put it flat on the table Marsh
Science proves there is No God
If some power started speaking out of the Sky
I would track the Speakers.

I can see why people follow a old fable book
But many of us are at a better Level in Life.

Again, a faith/belief does not always equate to organised religion and the bible.

Secondly, science hasn't proven anything in regards to a God.

Kindly patronise someone else.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread, Marsh and agree with most of what you say..I think that a lot of 'religious' people are very open minded in that they can believe in something that has no explanation because not everything in life can be explained..that's why it's 'belief' and belief can be a belief in anything and it's only a bad thing...(particularly in religion..)..when someone in that religion misuses it because they choose to pick out any negatives in it and just concentrate on those, which is being extreme...but they aren't the 'average/typical' religious person, that's why they're called extremists, they choose to put aside most of the good and positive teachings in their religion but there are people without any religion at all who do that anyway...


..personally I know some really good people who are religious and ok, maybe they don't take their religion to 'the letter of the law' and some people would say, you can't pick and choose the bits you want to...but I don't see anything wrong with that either because they're just taking their religion as an inspirational type thing to try to be a better person and also when they have fairly rubbish things happen in their lives, to help them get through those times because it gives them something to focus on, other than their emotional pain...how can that be bad/wrong..?...we all have to use 'crutches' at some point in our lives, whether it be friends/family/our job that we can focus on to distract and absorb us etc...for some people it's their religion and that's perfectly fine as well, it's as fine as anything else is...and not all people who have a faith, take the negative stuff and apply it to their lives because that wouldn't do anything but negative things to them..what they want and have and project onto others is something very positive in that they are quite often very good, admirable and generally caring and understanding people....

..anyway, I never get into religious discussions..this is my 'pet hate'.....


..but yeah, good posts, Marsh...

Thank you.

I told myself I'd steer clear from these types of discussions after the last one. Never again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I loved the story about that plane that ditched in New York in the Hudson River. As it was making its emergency landing the religious people were saying prayers

Meanwhile the atheists were reading the panel to see where the emergency exits were and putting on their life jackets......

[smeagol]

praying is a state of mind. if it makes people feel better then good luck to them
god may not hear your prayers but maybe people you lost will.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by smeagol

praying is a state of mind. if it makes people feel better then good luck to them
god may not hear your prayers but maybe people you lost will.

Dead people are dead, just like unborn people are. You cease to exist, when you die, in all but the memories of those you leave behind.

Your sentiment will be filed under "wishful thinking". I dont say that to be mean but just to identify it in context of this thread.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Dead people are dead, just like unborn people are. You cease to exist, when you die, in all but the memories of those you leave behind.

Your sentiment will be filed under "wishful thinking". I dont say that to be mean but just to identify it in context of this thread.

Ah leave him be. People can think what they want for me so long as they leave it out of mainstream education.

[lostalex]

Praying should be like masturbation. It's completely natural, nothing wrong with it, but I really don't wanna hear about it.

It's just spiritual masturbation. Do your business and get on with it, you don't need to make a big thing out of it.

People that need to make a big thing out of it, especially at large gatherings, should go fv<k themselves.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Dead people are dead, just like unborn people are. You cease to exist, when you die, in all but the memories of those you leave behind.

Your sentiment will be filed under "wishful thinking". I dont say that to be mean but just to identify it in context of this thread.

No, of course not... but it is mean, especially to those of us who have lost someone very close. Stop stating this as fact. I have never seen anyone on this thread state their religious beliefs as fact. I fail to see why you can't accept that some people have faith and leave them to it instead of trying to stamp all over people's beliefs. There are far more intelligent people than you or I who have faith, just like there are far more intelligent people than you and I who have no faith. Leave people be to make up their own mind.

Originally Posted by lostalex

Praying should be like masturbation. It's completely natural, nothing wrong with it, but I really don't wanna hear about it.

It's just spiritual masturbation. Do your business and get on with it, you don't need to make a big thing out of it.

People that need to make a big thing out of it, especially at large gatherings, should go fv<k themselves.

Got to agree with you, Alex. It is a personal thing that people should keep to themselves. If someone is truly interested in your faith - I don't mean people who make a thread to force their own non-belief on you and ridicule yours - I mean really interested to hear what you have to say, then that should be the only time it should be shared.