[Kyle]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

If this is the case then what's the point in working, education etc.

We may as well live like animals and just procreate.

We are far too intelligent for there to be nothing, deep in my soul it tells me that there's something.

So what were we when we were homo hablis then? Animals or more? Which stage of our eventual evolution from our primate ancestors did we gain this soul?

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Kyle

So what were we when we were homo hablis then? Animals or more? Which stage of our eventual evolution from our primate ancestors did we gain this soul?

I have my own theory, one that i'm comfortable with, but i don't wish to share it for fear of being ridiculed.

There are many things that can't be explained, and no-one has all the answers, but all i will say is that, once when i was incredibly sad, i was transported to the stars, i was in the universe and the love that i felt was unbelievable, i thought to myself, if this is what it feels like to die, then i'm not afraid anymore, and this is from a person who has had an issue with death from age 16.

I know what i felt and i know this is where i will go when my time is up, so for me i will go on, just like Celine Dion says "My heart will go on"

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

I have my own theory, one that i'm comfortable with, but i don't wish to share it for fear of being ridiculed.

There are many things that can't be explained, and no-one has all the answers, but all i will say is that, once when i was incredibly sad, i was transported to the stars, i was in the universe and the love that i felt was unbelievable, i thought to myself, if this is what it feels like to die, then i'm not afraid anymore, and this is from a person who has had an issue with death from age 16.

I know what i felt and i know this is where i will go when my time is up, so for me i will go on, just like Celine Dion says "My heart will go on"

No ridicule from me Rubymoo,we all have our beliefs no one can say what is right or wrong,I'm with you on this.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

No ridicule from me Rubymoo,we all have our beliefs no one can say what is right or wrong,I'm with you on this.

Thanks Kaz

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

No ridicule from me Rubymoo,we all have our beliefs no one can say what is right or wrong,I'm with you on this.

I am going to make a stab in the dark and say that Scientology is wrong, how about them apples?

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I am going to make a stab in the dark and say that Scientology is wrong, how about them apples?

Yeah i don't understand Scientology, but i do get along with Buddhism

Ooops looks like i spilt some tea

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

I have my own theory, one that i'm comfortable with, but i don't wish to share it for fear of being ridiculed.

There are many things that can't be explained, and no-one has all the answers, but all i will say is that, once when i was incredibly sad, i was transported to the stars, i was in the universe and the love that i felt was unbelievable, i thought to myself, if this is what it feels like to die, then i'm not afraid anymore, and this is from a person who has had an issue with death from age 16.

I know what i felt and i know this is where i will go when my time is up, so for me i will go on, just like Celine Dion says "My heart will go on"

I am with you Ruby, there is so much more, for me I would like to think that our purpose is to have a foot in each world, existing on the mortal plane but learning from the spiritual plane. In doing so we, with the help of like minds, could bring back peace and tranquility. It is going to take years for this to happen unless there is a sudden surge in energy which leads us all on another pathway as a "whole". Death is only a change in circumstance.

Each person has the right to their own beliefs and thoughts as we are all travelling together but on different pathways. If we believe in reincarnation then we are each within our own boundaries, noone is greater or lesser, just learning.

We have to enjoy our experiences if they are genuine but we have to be careful not to lead ourselves astray for the rewards are great and to sit amongst the stars is perfection in itself and the love is overwhelming. You must have really enjoyed that. It just goes to show that help is here when we need it and when we have the faith to realise that it can help xx

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

So what were we when we were homo hablis then? Animals or more? Which stage of our eventual evolution from our primate ancestors did we gain this soul?

Although Homo Habilis is generally accepted as a species in its own right, Leakey's proposal that it was a direct human ancestor, has still not been accepted by the archaeological establishment, who still regard Homo Erectus as our earliest ancestor, but I understand what you mean.

That said, how can anyone know whether mankind in his earliest form (whichever species that may be) had a soul or not? There is absolutely no way of knowing, just as there still is no way of knowing whether Homo Sapiens (modern man) has a soul or not - it is purely a matter of belief.

Atheist's cannot prove that God does not exist, no more than those who believe in God (in any of his forms) can prove that he does. This too is purely a matter of belief.

This being the the irrefutable truth it is both arrogant and unfair for any atheist to ridicule any person of faith for his beliefs, when those beliefs are as valid as the atheists. Not that I'm accusing you of this.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Although Homo Habilis is generally accepted as a species in its own right, Leakey's proposal that it was a direct human ancestor, has still not been accepted by the archaeological establishment, who still regard Homo Erectus as our earliest ancestor, but I understand what you mean.

That said, how can anyone know whether mankind in his earliest form (whichever species that may be) had a soul or not? There is absolutely no way of knowing, just as there still is no way of knowing whether Homo Sapiens (modern man) has a soul or not - it is purely a matter of belief.

Atheist's cannot prove that God does not exist, no more than those who believe in God (in any of his forms) can prove that he does. This too is purely a matter of belief.

This being the the irrefutable truth it is both arrogant and unfair for any atheist to ridicule any person of faith for his beliefs, when those beliefs are as valid as the atheists. Not that I'm accusing you of this.

Just like a lot of other things that people know aren't true can't be proven. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers but unlike faith there's actually solid evidence behind its theories.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Redway

Just like a lot of other things that people know aren't true can't be proven. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers but unlike faith there's actually solid evidence behind its theories.

Millions of people with religious beliefs can't be wrong......can they

I hasten to add that i'm not religious, i don't go to church, but i do believe to believe in your own truths, for example one of my truths is that i experienced my dead mum sit beside me, i was wide awake doing my hair, i felt cold on the side she sat, but i also felt calm and had the knowledge that it was her and therefore i was not afraid, the bed went down (as if she had sat beside me) i felt comforted and said..."hi mum, i hope you're ok..." that was all i could think of to say and then i felt her presence leave, this means to me that there is an after life, as i experienced it, therefore it is my truth.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Millions of people with religious beliefs can't be wrong......can they

Yeah... they can.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Redway

Yeah... they can.

Sorry Redway i added as you posted

[Ammi]

..beliefs don't have to be proven though, that's why they're 'beliefs' and it doesn't matter what you believe in either..it could be anything...it's more the positives that those beliefs give to your life and whether they make you want to be a better person...if having a faith or religion does that for people..then it's a great thing to have/how could it not be...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Redway

Yeah... they can.

And the proof for such a definite statement?

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm intrigued. Please expound. Just what 'solid evidence' has 'science' in respect of their being no God? In respect of Man not possessing 'souls'? In respect of death being final? and in respect of there being no afterlife?

Science, simply has no evidence for the above, they have 'theories' or in other words; conjecture, hypothesis, speculation and propositions, with no proof.

Therefore, as I have stated, without proof, one is left merely to believe in scientific theories, just as one has to believe in God, a Soul, and an Afterlife.

One belief is no more correct or valid than the other. All that matters is that both sides respect the others right to believe.

Of course we only have theories at the minute but I'd rather take that than faith, which is believing without a shred of credible evidence. And feel free to disagree obviously but I don't see why people want there to be some deep magical explanation for our existence when *to me* science seems to have more proof.

And of course I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they want. I'm only expressing my opinion just as you are... the fact that mine's different doesn't mean I vehemently oppose anyone who believes in something deeper than the big bang theory. I'd only try to get you to view it in a different light not force you to believe something else.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Millions of people with religious beliefs can't be wrong......can they

I hasten to add that i'm not religious, i don't go to church, but i do believe to believe in your own truths, for example one of my truths is that i experienced my dead mum sit beside me, i was wide awake doing my hair, i felt cold on the side she sat, but i also felt calm and had the knowledge that it was her and therefore i was not afraid, the bed went down (as if she had sat beside me) i felt comforted and said..."hi mum, i hope you're ok..." that was all i could think of to say and then i felt her presence leave, this means to me that there is an after life, as i experienced it, therefore it is my truth.

When my father died, it was sudden and totally unexpected and a policeman actually came to my house where I was asleep. My partner woke me and the very first thing I said, was "My dad's dead, isn't he?" This - like any claim I make - can be proved.

There are genuine mysteries in life Ruby, which that thing we call 'Science' just cannot answer. In the grand scheme of things, science is but a bunch of baboons poking a beehive with a stick. We do not understand what life is, know very little about the human brain - parts of which, the functions are unknown - and still have no idea how the universe came to be in existence.

You should never be intimidated by those who may try to ridicule you for your beliefs, because they do not possess a monopoly on the truth, and neither can they back up their reasons for mocking with any valid scientific proof. Such scientific proof does not exist.

[Urban Cragou]

Edit: never mind

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

When my father died, it was sudden and totally unexpected and a policeman actually came to my house where I was asleep. My partner woke me and the very first thing I said, was "My dad's dead, isn't he?" This - like any claim I make - can be proved.

There are genuine mysteries in life Ruby, which that thing we call 'Science' just cannot answer. In the grand scheme of things, science is but a bunch of baboons poking a beehive with a stick. We do not understand what life is, know very little about the human brain - parts of which, the functions are unknown - and still have no idea how the universe came to be in existence.

You should never be intimidated by those who may try to ridicule you for your beliefs, because they do not possess a monopoly on the truth, and neither can they back up their reasons for mocking with any valid scientific proof. Such scientific proof does not exist.

Sorry about your dad kirk, I agree though sometimes you have a 6th sense and you just know, I believe science and medicine is all in it's infancy and as humans we have lots to learn, I'm comforted by my beliefs, and have had too many things happen for them to be just passed off as coincidence, I live my life in believing my truth, which is a Buddhist way of life.

[kirklancaster]

This is a very complex subject - the debating of, which could fill thousands of volumes, not scratch the surface, and answer nothing.

There are hundreds of excellent 'pros and cons' articles on the internet, and thousands of books on this subject - all written by far more intelligent and knowledgeable people than me, but read as I may, I am still left with unanswered questions and my belief in God intact.

For what it's worth, I will post on this subject soon, but for now, will anyone care to answer these questions:

If life is 'accidental' - where did at all begin?
If there was nothing who introduced the something ?
If there was already something, who put the something there in the first place ?
If there is no meaning to life, and no after life, then we are no different to other animals.
If that is so, then where did our moral code come from?

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Millions of people with religious beliefs can't be wrong......can they

I hasten to add that i'm not religious, i don't go to church, but i do believe to believe in your own truths, for example one of my truths is that i experienced my dead mum sit beside me, i was wide awake doing my hair, i felt cold on the side she sat, but i also felt calm and had the knowledge that it was her and therefore i was not afraid, the bed went down (as if she had sat beside me) i felt comforted and said..."hi mum, i hope you're ok..." that was all i could think of to say and then i felt her presence leave, this means to me that there is an after life, as i experienced it, therefore it is my truth.

Which is all fine and yeah, of course faith is a personal thing. I don't believe in it myself (which is what I was trying to get across) but I'd never rubbish anyone else's opinions. Sorry to hear about your mum

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Redway

Which is all fine and yeah, of course faith is a personal thing. I don't believe in it myself (which is what I was trying to get across) but I'd never rubbish anyone else's opinions. Sorry to hear about your mum

Thanks Red way, that's OK, it was a long time ago, I think that's why I questioned life and death from an early age as well as exploring the spiritual side of life

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Redway

Just like a lot of other things that people know aren't true can't be proven. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers but unlike faith there's actually solid evidence behind its theories.

I'm intrigued. Please expound. Just what 'solid evidence' has 'science' in respect of their being no God? In respect of Man not possessing 'souls'? In respect of death being final? and in respect of there being no afterlife?

Science, simply has no evidence for the above, they have 'theories' or in other words; conjecture, hypothesis, speculation and propositions, with no proof.

Therefore, as I have stated, without proof, one is left merely to believe in scientific theories, just as one has to believe in God, a Soul, and an Afterlife.

One belief is no more correct or valid than the other. All that matters is that both sides respect the others right to believe.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Although Homo Habilis is generally accepted as a species in its own right, Leakey's proposal that it was a direct human ancestor, has still not been accepted by the archaeological establishment, who still regard Homo Erectus as our earliest ancestor, but I understand what you mean.

That said, how can anyone know whether mankind in his earliest form (whichever species that may be) had a soul or not? There is absolutely no way of knowing, just as there still is no way of knowing whether Homo Sapiens (modern man) has a soul or not - it is purely a matter of belief.

Atheist's cannot prove that God does not exist, no more than those who believe in God (in any of his forms) can prove that he does. This too is purely a matter of belief.

This being the the irrefutable truth it is both arrogant and unfair for any atheist to ridicule any person of faith for his beliefs, when those beliefs are as valid as the atheists. Not that I'm accusing you of this.

The burden of proof is not on the non religious to prove God exists but nice try.

Just because I decide to believe in the God of Anal sphincters and you can't damn well disprove his existence does not mean he does so.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

The burden of proof is not on the non religious to prove God exists but nice try.

Just because I decide to believe in the God of Anal sphincters and you can't damn well disprove his existence does not mean he does so.

"The burden of proof is not on the non religious to prove God exists but nice try."

Kyle, you have completely misread, or misunderstood what I posted - or both. I actually said that:

"Atheist's cannot prove that God does not exist" -- not, as you misquote, that "the non religious" has to "prove God exists".

Further; your statement;

"The burden of proof is not on the non religious to prove God exists but nice try."

is totally misleading and simply not true, because, 'Burden of Proof' by definition:

'It is a fundamental principle of English law that a litigant bears the burden (or “onus”) of proof in respect of the propositions it asserts to prove its claim. The burden of proof does not lie with the person who denies the allegation'.

Therefore, 'Burden of Proof' actually falls squarely upon the shoulders of the claimant - whether he be a 'believer' claiming that God exists, or an Atheist claiming that God does not exist.

[bots]

Superstition, faith, religion etc are all interlinked and all originate from events that the person is unable to explain. Historically, the majority of superstitions have been proven to be false as science advances, because people generally connect events together for their own benefit/advantage with little to back up their assertions. Like it or not, religion has, and continues to be used as a method of controlling the actions and behaviour of people to fit in with the agenda of those controlling. When spirituality is finally allowed to be divorced from religious agendas, then it may have some substance and depth, until then, its nothing more than mumbo jumbo.