[Tom4784]

People will always use religion to justify horrific acts, Obama's right to say that Christianity is no better or different to Islam.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

People will always use religion to justify horrific acts, Obama's right to say that Christianity is no better or different to Islam.

The difference being that the horrific acts comminted by Christians were in the past. Such horrific acts commited by Islam are on-going and used as a constant threat in an attempt to create a climate of fear.

As the human race has generally become more civilised we are supposed to know better.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

The difference being that the horrific acts comminted by Christians were in the past. Such horrific acts commited by Islam are on-going and used as a constant threat in an attempt to create a climate of fear.

As the human race has generally become more civilised we are supposed to know better.

It doesn't matter that it happened in the past, one day Isis will be a thing of the past but it won't make their crimes any less grave.

Also it's ignorant to say that these acts are being committed by Islam, it's not. Not every Muslim is declaring jihad. It's a small minority that are using Islam to justify their crimes. They aren't even following it properly as, if I recall, using fire to harm others is a huge no no according to the Qu'ran. These people are just using religion to take advantage of vulnerable people and their fears to line their own pockets.

It's like saying that all Christians are peadophiles because of the actions of a few priests. It's a ridiculous notion and I will never understand why people think it's okay to tar an entire religion's worth of people with the same brush.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It doesn't matter that it happened in the past, one day Isis will be a thing of the past but it won't make their crimes any less grave.

Also it's ignorant to say that these acts are being committed by Islam, it's not. Not every Muslim is declaring jihad. It's a small minority that are using Islam to justify their crimes. They aren't even following it properly as, if I recall, using fire to harm others is a huge no no according to the Qu'ran. These people are just using religion to take advantage of vulnerable people and their fears to line their own pockets.

It's like saying that all Christians are peadophiles because of the actions of a few priests. It's a ridiculous notion and I will never understand why people think it's okay to tar an entire religion's worth of people with the same brush.

What happened in the past is different to what is happening now - because we can't do anything about it - only learn from it. And most religions have.

Now is what counts and many Muslims, allegedly in the name of Islam, are using it now. You certainly can't excuse it by saying that one day that will be in the past too. Ridiculous point.

A few priests hardly compares to the number of Muslims currently involved in Islamic violence and threatening world peace so attempting to make such a comparison is ridiculous.

I don't believe in tarring people with the same brush, but I still don't see enough outrage and condemnation of these acts coming from Muslims, including English Muslims, to believe the majority of Muslims are against it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

What happened in the past is different to what is happening now - because we can't do anything about it - only learn from it. And most religions have.

Now is what counts and many Muslims, allegedly in the name of Islam, are using it now. You certainly can't excuse it by saying that one day that will be in the past too. Ridiculous point.

A few priests hardly compares to the number of Muslims currently involved in Islamic violence and threatening world peace so attempting to make such a comparison is ridiculous.

I don't believe in tarring people with the same brush, but I still don't see enough outrage and condemnation of these acts coming from Muslims, including English Muslims, to believe the majority of Muslims are against it.

I'm not comparing the crimes, I'm comparing people's reactions to them. People are quick to separate religion from the crime if the religion in question is Christianity but if a Muslim commits a crime then you expect the whole religion to be dragged over hot coals for it.

There's plenty of Muslims out there that are condemning the actions of Isis but they'll never get representation in the media because it goes against the image of what the media wants Islam to be. Fear sells and most mainstream media outlets want Islam to be their boogeyman. Just because you don't look for it doesn't mean that all of Islam are complacent and happy enough to let Isis do what they want.

Remember, Isis have killed more Muslims than anyone else of any other creed or race. Muslims have more of a reason to oppose Isis than anyone and they do, it's just that it'll never get highlighted in the media since it won't sell as much as fear and hatred will.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

What happened in the past is different to what is happening now - because we can't do anything about it - only learn from it. And most religions have.

Now is what counts and many Muslims, allegedly in the name of Islam, are using it now. You certainly can't excuse it by saying that one day that will be in the past too. Ridiculous point.

A few priests hardly compares to the number of Muslims currently involved in Islamic violence and threatening world peace so attempting to make such a comparison is ridiculous.

I don't believe in tarring people with the same brush, but I still don't see enough outrage and condemnation of these acts coming from Muslims, including English Muslims, to believe the majority of Muslims are against it.

Obama is wrong here plain and simple....he shouldn't be apologising for these mass murdering psychopaths and he shouldn't be condemning Christians for it either...clearly hes banned from saying jews are just as much to blame as theyre protected unlike Christians....what a mess of double standards....this is about radical islam

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

People will always use religion to justify horrific acts, Obama's right to say that Christianity is no better or different to Islam.

It is totally different? that's a crazy claim

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

It is totally different? that's a crazy claim

It's really not, all religion is and has been used as justification for attrocities and Christianity is no different.

It's truly ignorant to think that one religion is better than another, it's all the same. There are extremists in every religion.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's really not, all religion is and has been used as justification for attrocities and Christianity is no different.

It's truly ignorant to think that one religion is better than another, it's all the same. There are extremists in every religion.

that's the most ignorant stupidest post Iver EVER READ on any website ever
Christianity and Islam are about as similar as heaven is to hell........totally different ends of the spectrum. you really need to read and learn for about 20 years before you even comment on it further. You live in a society built on Christian principles and laws... where youre allowed free speech to a degree where you live in relative peace with a decent standard of living where we fight for equal rights where we have healthcare for all where we believe in the principle of redemption , enlightenment , forgiveness ......islam and this perverted version of islam praches hate it has no pace for forgiveness anywhere , it has no place for redemption...people get killed for all sorts of so called crimes...you and me would already be killed for writing in this thread...and Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone....every person put their stones down and the woman was set free..now go and sin no more..."


im truly embarrassed for you

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

that's the most ignorant stupidest post Iver EVER READ on any website ever
Christianity and Islam are about as similar as heaven is to hell........totally different ends of the spectrum. you really need to read and learn for about 20 years before you even comment on it further. You live in a society built on Christian principles and laws... where youre allowed free speech to a degree where you live in relative peace with a decent standard of living where we fight for equal rights where we have healthcare for all where we believe in the principle of redemption , enlightenment , forgiveness ......islam and this perverted version of islam praches hate it has no pace for forgiveness anywhere , it has no place for redemption...people get killed for all sorts of so called crimes...you and me would already be killed for writing in this thread...and Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone....every person put their stones down and the woman was set free..now go and sin no more..."


im truly embarrassed for you

Have you ever been to Ireland?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have you ever been to Ireland?

yes a nation torn apart by the monarchy and a potato famine and the religion was used as a weapon to destroy them and have them warring amongst themselves...divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the monarchy play book.......forget ye not its the fat greedy king of England who burn down all the catholic churches in the first place and burned anyone who stood in his way because he wanted a to shag more women

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't hate any single religion, I hate the idea of organised religion and (like I've said numerous times...) it's dumb to highlight one religion as being more 'evil' or primative or controlling when all religions are equally primitive and controlling. Again, thinking that one religion is inherently better than another is foolish. They all preach hatred, they all have the same basic premise and methods of control. You are biased and ignorant if you think that Christianity is somehow better than the rest. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE OLD TESTAMENT? 'Biblical' isn't a term for 'some horrific bat**** crazy **** is going to go down' by chance....

Your post shows an incredible naivety and ignorance of the subject under discussion.

Christianity is of the New Testament - not the Old Testament.

Islam is both primitive and controlling, The Judeo Christian Bible is primitive but not controlling in the slightest.

The Quran preaches open-ended hatred and violence, The Judeo Christian Bible preaches neither.

Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not.

Please show me any evidence which substantiates the claims in your post.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Islamic Fundamentalist Imams, Muftis and Ayatollahs preach violence and hatred, Rabbis and Priests and Vicars do not.

Oh come on now kirk - this is seriously disingenuous, even from someone with a personal bias on the subject. A bias I'm sure you'll deny you have... But you do have... Christianity is the achilles heel in your reasoned logic, you are incapable of impartiality on the subject of religion.

But, yes, anyway - you point out that "Fundamentalist Imams" preach hatred whereas "Rabbis and Priests" do not. This is an obviously unfair comparison. Non-fundamentalist Imams do not preach hate, and there are Fundamentalist Priests, preachers and certainly Rabbis who absolutely and unquestionably DO preach hatred and violence. There are several well documented Fundamentalist Jewish Rabbis in Israel whose entire motivation is to convert young Jews into armed thugs. There are several hate-preaching Christian churches that plague every American state. You can't possibly deny this, you can't possibly state with such certainty that "Rabbis, Priests and Vicars do not preach hatred or violence". It's not just incorrect, it's a bare-faced lie.

I won't even deny that there are probably a greater number of Fundamentalist Islamic preachers than either of the others or that it's a more widespread issue, but what you are doing is implying that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful and - unfathomably - that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh come on now kirk - this is seriously disingenuous, even from someone with a personal bias on the subject. A bias I'm sure you'll deny you have... But you do have... Christianity is the achilles heel in your reasoned logic, you are incapable of impartiality on the subject of religion.

But, yes, anyway - you point out that "Fundamentalist Imams" preach hatred whereas "Rabbis and Priests" do not. This is an obviously unfair comparison. Non-fundamentalist Imams do not preach hate, and there are Fundamentalist Priests, preachers and certainly Rabbis who absolutely and unquestionably DO preach hatred and violence. There are several well documented Fundamentalist Jewish Rabbis in Israel whose entire motivation is to convert young Jews into armed thugs. There are several hate-preaching Christian churches that plague every American state. You can't possibly deny this, you can't possibly state with such certainty that "Rabbis, Priests and Vicars do not preach hatred or violence". It's not just incorrect, it's a bare-faced lie.

Christian preachers do not preach this poison........Islam seems to be infiltrated with this radical twisted disease whereas rabbis im not so sure I don't follow Judaism as closely.....Christian churches are on the whole places of magnificent preachers and fantastic people doing good work ....when you take into account the billion plus Christians the amount of good work they do across the globe is astounding.....in charity work in caring in missionary work and voluntary is remarkable.........its just a shame other religions cannot be as forgiving and charitable as Christians but that will never be the case as there was only one Christ who was a magnificent example to all humanity

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh come on now kirk - this is seriously disingenuous, even from someone with a personal bias on the subject. A bias I'm sure you'll deny you have... But you do have... Christianity is the achilles heel in your reasoned logic, you are incapable of impartiality on the subject of religion.

But, yes, anyway - you point out that "Fundamentalist Imams" preach hatred whereas "Rabbis and Priests" do not. This is an obviously unfair comparison. Non-fundamentalist Imams do not preach hate, and there are Fundamentalist Priests, preachers and certainly Rabbis who absolutely and unquestionably DO preach hatred and violence. There are several well documented Fundamentalist Jewish Rabbis in Israel whose entire motivation is to convert young Jews into armed thugs. There are several hate-preaching Christian churches that plague every American state. You can't possibly deny this, you can't possibly state with such certainty that "Rabbis, Priests and Vicars do not preach hatred or violence". It's not just incorrect, it's a bare-faced lie.

I won't even deny that there are probably a greater number of Fundamentalist Islamic preachers than either of the others or that it's a more widespread issue, but what you are doing is implying that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful and - unfathomably - that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative.

In answer to your ridiculous and presumptuous claims which I have emboldened, I am not implying anything of the sort. Do not 'twist' my statements which are in print for all to see. If I had meant that "most" Islamic preachers are hateful I would have stated as much, and if I had meant that there are ZERO Jewish or Christian preachers preaching anything negative, I would have stated as much.

As for your other claims, I welcome you expounding upon them with suitable corroborating evidence.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

"People will always use religion to justify horrific acts, Obama's right to say that Christianity is no better or different to Islam."

First of all, Barack Hussein Obama being a Muslim would state that, but it is thinly disguised pro-Islamic propaganda and anti-Christian nonsense, because Christianity most definitely is a totally different religion to Islam.

What's more, Hussein Obama makes the same colossal error which you and others on this thread make, in being confused by just what Christianity is.

Christianity is a religion specifically based upon the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as attested in The New Testament, and Jesus Christ was a pacifist who taught Love, Understanding, Tolerance, Charity and advocated peace and forgiveness.

True Christians are those who put faith and trust in the New Testament and who believe in Jesus as ‘The Christ’ or Messiah, and who follow Christ’s teachings. Therefore true Christians who truly follow the teachings of Christ are also peace loving.

NOWHERE in the New Testament is there any incitement for followers to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers and I defy anyone on here to provide evidence to the contrary.

Even the violence within the Old Testament is solely bound by historical context and specific only to the era in which the text was written, as distinct from the open-ended commands throughout the Quran which compel faithful Muslims to to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers. These commands are not era specific, and have no predetermined time limit, so are as relevant and applicable for faithful Muslims today as they were to faithful Muslims in Muhammad's time. Which explains the demonic atrocities still being perpetrated in Allah's name after 1500 years.

The above is only one difference between Islam and Christianity, but there are other very real differences, far too numerous to expound upon here.

As for "better than" - whether we are specifically comparing the religions themselves, or their followers interpretation of The New Testament with the Quran, there really is no comparison, because the former is a religion based upon love, peace and tolerance, and the latter is one where 109 of its verses incite beheadings and dismemberment or other violence.

I feel this may be the reason why we do not see faithful Christians holding one freshly-severed innocent's head after another, or witness them coolly moving through school classrooms executing innocent children, setting terrified teachers ablaze, or chanting "Jesus" while they shoot yet more innocent victims in cold blood.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

First of all, Barack Hussein Obama being a Muslim would state that, but it is thinly disguised pro-Islamic propaganda and anti-Christian nonsense, because Christianity most definitely is a totally different religion to Islam.

What's more, Hussein Obama makes the same colossal error which you and others on this thread make, in being confused by just what Christianity is.

Christianity is a religion specifically based upon the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as attested in The New Testament, and Jesus Christ was a pacifist who taught Love, Understanding, Tolerance, Charity and advocated peace and forgiveness.

True Christians are those who put faith and trust in the New Testament and who believe in Jesus as ‘The Christ’ or Messiah, and who follow Christ’s teachings. Therefore true Christians who truly follow the teachings of Christ are also peace loving.

NOWHERE in the New Testament is there any incitement for followers to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers and I defy anyone on here to provide evidence to the contrary.

Even the violence within the Old Testament is solely bound by historical context and specific only to the era in which the text was written, as distinct from the open-ended commands throughout the Quran which compel faithful Muslims to to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers. These commands are not era specific, and have no predetermined time limit, so are as relevant and applicable for faithful Muslims today as they were to faithful Muslims in Muhammad's time. Which explains the demonic atrocities still being perpetrated in Allah's name after 1500 years.

The above is only one difference between Islam and Christianity, but there are other very real differences, far too numerous to expound upon here.

As for "better than" - whether we are specifically comparing the religions themselves, or their followers interpretation of The New Testament with the Quran, there really is no comparison, because the former is a religion based upon love, peace and tolerance, and the latter is one where 109 of its verses incite beheadings and dismemberment or other violence.

I feel this may be the reason why we do not see faithful Christians holding one freshly-severed innocent's head after another, or witness them coolly moving through school classrooms executing innocent children, setting terrified teachers ablaze, or chanting "Jesus" while they shoot yet more innocent victims in cold blood.

Thanks for posting this Kirk, I read many posts on here arguing that Islam is actually really peaceful and that its misunderstood or that Christianity is or was equally bad and Islam will change and that the religions are similar.

Utter nonsense as you have so eloquently detailed they are fundamentally different, one is a moral code to live by and a blueprint for moving the human race forward to better times. A framework of rules to live by where peace,love and tolerance are cornerstones, beacons shing the way forward.

The other is a dark backward rigid religious cult which worships and sanctifies death,pain,torture and suffering. A set of rules which basically is mind control where obedience and compliance are mandatory and all individuality and creativity are frowned upon.

More a set of rules not to live by but rather to try and not break or ones life will be very short.

So different from Christianity it beggars belief people on here cannot see these glaring differences.

Look forward to the day Islam is seen for what it is and is consigned to the scrapheap of history.




.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Thanks for posting this Kirk, I read many posts on here arguing that Islam is actually really peaceful and that its misunderstood or that Christianity is or was equally bad and Islam will change and that the religions are similar.

Utter nonsense as you have so eloquently detailed they are fundamentally different, one is a moral code to live by and a blueprint for moving the human race forward to better times. A framework of rules to live by where peace,love and tolerance are cornerstones, beacons shing the way forward.

The other is a dark backward rigid religious cult which worships and sanctifies death,pain,torture and suffering. A set of rules which basically is mind control where obedience and compliance are mandatory and all individuality and creativity are frowned upon.

More a set of rules not to live by but rather to try and not break or ones life will be very short.

So different from Christianity it beggars belief people on here cannot see these glaring differences.

Look forward to the day Islam is seen for what it is and is consigned to the scrapheap of history.

.

I am grateful for your comments Nedusa - It is members such as you who are the reason why I returned to this forum.

Thank you.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Whether you support organised religion or not is hardly the issue. You were being challenged on your comparisons between present day Islamic religious doctrine still practicing opression and violence to historical Christian doctrine in an era when people knew no different. Today people do, even in Asia.

Maybe your comprehension skills are not as developed as you think they are and maybe you need to get over yourself.

It's less to do with Islam and more to do with Dictators using it to enforce their reign. The same thing could happen to any religion, you could get a Jewish, Christian, Hindu ETC group that gains some power and enforces it through the darkest parts of their religious text. You could take religion out of the Middle east and the same problems would still exist because it's less about religion and more about power and the means those who have it use to keep it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry Dezzy, but I do read every post on every thread which I subscribe to, in the same way that I read and research, and cross check and cross reference, any subject on which I am interested in before I form an opinion, and therefore, when I do post an opinion it as near a 'qualified' opinion as possible.

Islam and Christianity are subjects of which I already have a considerable knowledge of - being both a Christian, and also interested in all religions since I was young - and my posts have nothing to do with being "self righteous" and being "self obsessed" or thinking that "everyone should kneel before" my "truth", but are to do with not allowing groundless attacks on Christianity to go unchallenged - especially when such attacks are cloaked in pseudo fact and ludicrous misconceptions.

I am also not dim, and able to perceive irrational anti-Christianity attacks no matter how expertly disguised among phrases such as "all religions", in the same manner that I cannot help but conclude from the preponderance of evidence, that whilst certain members on here continually attack Christianity, their lack of real condemnation or even criticism of Islam and Islamic terrorists is glaring.

It seems clear to me, that it is the Modus Operandi of certain members on here to post ill thought out, sweeping and presumptuous fallacies, then when rebutted by legitimate and reasoned counter responses, they resort to 4 reactions against those validly countering:

A) Insult
B) Ridicule
B) Ignore
C) Make false complaint to a Moderator.

The above is neither discussion, nor debate.

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

Well Kizzy, it's finally happened. We've agreed on something

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well Kizzy, it's finally happened. We've agreed on something

Hallelujah!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

"If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own."


What the hell are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

"It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks."

What the hell are you talking about in the section which I have emboldened above? It makes no sense.

Please calm down Kizzy, and re-post the part of my post from which you draw such ridiculous conclusions so that I and others on here can actually cross reference to see where you may have at least some justification - no matter how tenuous - for your misinterpretations. Oh, and I genuinely don't understand what you mean by: "as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members'"? What are you "suspecting" "on of" which "members"?

Bye for now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own."


What the hell are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

"It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks."

What the hell are you talking about in the section which I have emboldened above? It makes no sense.

Please calm down Kizzy, and re-post the part of my post from which you draw such ridiculous conclusions so that I and others on here can actually cross reference to see where you may have at least some justification - no matter how tenuous - for your misinterpretations. Oh, and I genuinely don't understand what you mean by: "as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members'"? What are you "suspecting" "on of" which "members"?

Bye for now.

Ah patronising?...

It makes sense if you think back to when I said all religions operate through a system of fear, for power and influence at their core... in that respect they're all the same.
If you don't do this, that will happen.

I am calm, I will explain... 'certain members on here continually attack Christianity, their lack of real condemnation or even criticism of Islam and Islamic terrorists is glaring'

I feel you are suggesting I am one of these members that you are opposed to, I take offence to the fact you are insinuating that as well as 'attacking' Christianity by not stating that I condemn terrorism as if it's some 'glaring' statement of some sort....Does everyone now have to state the obvious to appease you?

[Josy]

Can we stick to discussing the topic of the thread and NOT other members please, this includes blanket statements like 'certain members' 'some members' and so on, it constantly turns into tit for tat sniping and then completely ruins the thread for others.

This goes for this thread and all of the other ones in this section.