[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This doesn't make sense, I thought Christianity was a peaceful and tolerant religion? Why are these Christians cheering the deaths of innocent people and quoting bible passages that demand allegiance or death? I thought Christianity was far too developed for this. All Christians should be made to apologise and denounce the actions of the Christians in this picture lest they be tarred with the same brush.

At the end of the day it's the extremists that define an entire religion isn't it? All Muslims are obviously Isis supporters that want to spread misery and death through their barbaric religion and Christianity is obviously filled with peadophilic white supremacists that preach hate and rejoice at the deaths of innocent people just because they had the audacity to follow a different god. Who cares about the majority of peaceful followers of both religions? Let's focus on the extreme minority and use that to base our opinion on.

Are these Christians planting bombs, taking hostages and beheading them and burning them alive? Are they stoning their own people to death and enforcing control through fear and violence? Are they trying to enforce their so-called beliefs and way of life onto others? Do they have many parts of the world on alert because of their terrorist activities? Another ridiculous comparison from someone trying to be clever but just demonstrating they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Like many, I feel that if the majority of so-called normal Muslims were to speak up more and do more to deal with their own instead of the rest of the world having to do it, maybe I would believe there was less support for their criminal activities from normal Muslims.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities.

Worldwide the Muslim community is extensive, growing at a far greater rate than most other communities - is it really so hard for the majority to deal with the minority assuming of course that normal Muslims are indeed the majority or the extremist Muslims are in the minority.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Are these Christians planting bombs, taking hostages and beheading them and burning them alive? Are they stoning their own people to death and enforcing control through fear and violence? Are they trying to enforce their so-called beliefs and way of life onto others? Do they have many parts of the world on alert because of their terrorist activities? Another ridiculous comparison from someone trying to be clever but just demonstrating they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Like many, I feel that if the majority of so-called normal Muslims were to speak up more and do more to deal with their own instead of the rest of the world having to do it, maybe I would believe there was less support for their criminal activities from normal Muslims.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities.

Worldwide the Muslim community is extensive, growing at a far greater rate than most other communities - is it really so hard for the majority to deal with the minority assuming of course that normal Muslims are indeed the majority or the extremist Muslims are in the minority.

Still hypocritical, you expect all Muslims to atone for the sins of the few extremists yet you aren't prepared to hold other religions to the same standard. You can't pick or choose, it's all or nothing.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Still hypocritical, you expect all Muslims to atone for the sins of the few extremists yet you aren't prepared to hold other religions to the same standard. You can't pick or choose, it's all or nothing.

Again you miss the point.

Firstly are the extremists in the minority? If so why don't the majority do more to deal with the minority. At the end of the day the majority have the power so it is hardly any surprise that many doubt exactly who is and is not in the majority.

Secondly I am living in the present not the past. It is the Muslim religion causing all the problems today and threatening world peace, which of course affects all of us.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Again you miss the point.

Firstly are the extremists in the minority? If so why don't the majority do more to deal with the minority. At the end of the day the majority have the power so it is hardly any surprise that many doubt exactly who is and is not in the majority.

Secondly I am living in the present not the past. It is the Muslim religion causing all the problems today and threatening world peace, which of course affects all of us.

I didn't miss any point, you just refuse to understand.

The extremists are obviously the minority, they're just a loud and organised one and they're hard for the military forces of the world to stop so why do you expect your average Muslim to be able to do anything? Would you expect the same from Christians if Isis was a Christian organisation? I'm guessing you wouldn't, well, I KNOW you wouldn't.

Also it's not Islam that's causing problems, It's extremists that are using the religion that's causing the problems, the fact you can't differentiate between a Muslim and a terrorist is just sad. I dislike religion because of extremists but it's not only Islam that's guilty of having extremist groups that use their faith for their own gain. Like ?I've said plenty of times in this topic, all religions are basically the same, it's foolish to argue against one and defend another.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Still hypocritical, you expect all Muslims to atone for the sins of the few extremists yet you aren't prepared to hold other religions to the same standard. You can't pick or choose, it's all or nothing.

He never said that.....But muslim leaders , the muslim councils and those who have some authority should unite loudly as one to denounce the mass spread of radical islam terrorism....Obama needs to stop fudging this, the problem is with radical islam and radial Judaism / Zionism too

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

He never said that.....But muslim leaders , the muslim councils and those who have some authority should unite loudly as one to denounce the mass spread of radical islam terrorism....Obama needs to stop fudging this, the problem is with radical islam and radial Judaism / Zionism too

There's been plenty of anti-isis movements and protests from the muslim community but you act like they're condoning Isis because you're only looking to the mainstream media for answers. The media will never paint muslims in a good light, they earn too much money from Muslims being the evil boogeymen to scare people like you into buying their papers and buying into their crap.

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

Not only that, but currently the ONLY really feet in boots on the ground fighting against the main ISIS forces are Muslims. Or, in fact, progressive non-religious groups of people who come from Muslim backgrounds (something that the mass media would have us believe don't actually exist, because people are murdered if they try to leave Islam).

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's been plenty of anti-isis movements and protests from the muslim community but you act like they're condoning Isis because you're only looking to the mainstream media for answers. The media will never paint muslims in a good light, they earn too much money from Muslims being the evil boogeymen to scare people like you into buying their papers and buying into their crap.

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

I'm sorry but you're obsessed with the media and your belief that they are intent on undermining all Muslims. Whether or not there is any truth in that you are out of order implying that you are the only one clued-up enough to see that.

According to you everyone who is distrustful of the Muslim religon is brainwashed by the media and most likely middle-aged women terrified of them because they are not like us. You wish. Patronising garbage.

On point, some Muslims may have spoken out, but not enough. They don't have to be congregating on street corners with anti-British banners to support extremist activity. Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. If it were simply a small minority of young British Muslims going abroad and taking up arms against Britain and becoming involved in terrorist activity that would not be so worrying, but there are increasing numbers of them doing so.

We are told Muslims are very respectful of their parents and their beliefs so if their parents are bringing them up to respect Britain and are denouncing the extremists, why are they so full of hate for the British. Where does it come from? Home seems an obvious start.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

I'm sorry but you're obsessed with the media and your belief that they are intent on undermining all Muslims. Whether or not there is any truth in that you are out of order implying that you are the only one clued-up enough to see that.

According to you everyone who is distrustful of the Muslim religon is brainwashed by the media and most likely middle-aged women terrified of them because they are not like us. You wish. Patronising garbage.

On point, some Muslims may have spoken out, but not enough. They don't have to be congregating on street corners with anti-British banners to support extremist activity. Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. If it were simply a small minority of young British Muslims going abroad and taking up arms against Britain and becoming involved in terrorist activity that would not be so worrying, but there are increasing numbers of them doing so.

We are told Muslims are very respectful of their parents and their beliefs so if their parents are bringing them up to respect Britain and are denouncing the extremists, why are they so full of hate for the British. Where does it come from? Home seems an obvious start.

A million Muslims could unite in the middle of Trafalgar Square and have a massive protest against Isis and Extremism and it still would not be enough for you, nothing ever will. It's much easier to blame the Muslims and think them all terrorists isn't it?

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

A million Muslims could unite in the middle of Trafalgar Square and have a massive protest against Isis and Extremism and it still would not be enough for you, nothing ever will. It's much easier to blame the Muslims and think them all terrorists isn't it?

I don't know what would be enough, but what we are getting now, which is practically nothing, is not it. The parents of these Muslim men publicly disowning them would be a start.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

A million Muslims could unite in the middle of Trafalgar Square and have a massive protest against Isis and Extremism and it still would not be enough for you, nothing ever will. It's much easier to blame the Muslims and think them all terrorists isn't it?

that hasn't happened it hasn't even come close to happening and the mass mass terrorist murders of radical islam continue, get real

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's been plenty of anti-isis movements and protests from the muslim community but you act like they're condoning Isis because you're only looking to the mainstream media for answers. The media will never paint muslims in a good light, they earn too much money from Muslims being the evil boogeymen to scare people like you into buying their papers and buying into their crap.

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

complete made up lies..........its nothing to do with the media.......the truth is radical islam is blowing innocent people up across the globe in random acts of horrific terrorism..........you actually dare to belittle the evil they do and pass it off as the fault of the media or other religions...we see through your lies. its radical islam and it needs to be targetted

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

complete made up lies..........its nothing to do with the media.......the truth is radical islam is blowing innocent people up across the globe in random acts of horrific terrorism..........you actually dare to belittle the evil they do and pass it off as the fault of the media or other religions...we see through your lies. its radical islam and it needs to be targetted

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Hysterical ignorant nonsense.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Hysterical ignorant nonsense.

I don't agree at all. Dezzy. Here is his post in its entirety:

Originally Posted by the truth:
"complete made up lies..........its nothing to do with the media.......the truth is radical islam is blowing innocent people up across the globe in random acts of horrific terrorism..........you actually dare to belittle the evil they do and pass it off as the fault of the media or other religions...we see through your lies. its radical islam and it needs to be targetted"

There is no "hysterics" here - just stating of facts: There is no ignorance - but quite the reverse; knowledgeable and valid comment.There is no nonsense - only truth:

A) Radical Islamics are blowing up and murdering innocent people across the globe with sickening frequency.

B) If the above is true - which it irrefutably is - then the media can only report it.

C) He is careful to specify 'Radical' Islam and not all Islam, which is the truth.

D) The Media and/or other religions are not the cause of the atrocities perpetrated by these terrorists, so he is right to state as much.

I really don’t believe that we will progress matters on this thread (or any other) until some basic facts are first proposed, examined, and mutually accepted and agreed upon, so that once such facts are established, we do not all keep futilely moving around in argumentative circles.

It is, after all, banal for any of us to ask questions or make erroneous statements in a post, then have those questions legitimately answered or such misconceptions corrected in a response (with corroboration) only for the original poster to then ignore the response and pose the same questions and make the same erroneous statements in a subsequent post.

I am not advocating that anyone should defer to anyone else’s views, even if such views are more plausible and backed up by the superior evidence, but what I am saying, is that it would aid proper debate if we all did address points made in counter responses – even if at the end of any debate we just agree to amicably disagree.

For example; no one is stating that all Islam is responsible for these atrocities, or that the majority of peace-loving, moderate Muslims are, only that Islamac Fundamentalist Terrorists are. Yet post after post works from a false premise that people are blaming all Islam or all peace-loving moderate Muslims.

It gets us nowhere.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities..

A common misconception. The western world has more personal freedom because it revolves around capitalism, and because the people who are running things benefit hugely from that capitalism and exploiting a free (or more or less free) market with huge numbers of relatively well off, relatively frivolous consumers.

Freedom and lack of oppression is essential to that consumer economy. Having a pleasant, comfortable life (and having a desire to keep it pleasant and comfortable, or make it more pleasant and comfortable) is also an integral to that capitalist / consumer economy.

That is why we are "free", and that is why we are "comfortable". If it benefited those with power and money for us not to be free or comfortable, we would not be free or comfortable.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A common misconception. The western world has more personal freedom because it revolves around capitalism, and because the people who are running things benefit hugely from that capitalism and exploiting a free (or more or less free) market with huge numbers of relatively well off, relatively frivolous consumers.

Freedom and lack of oppression is essential to that consumer economy. Having a pleasant, comfortable life (and having a desire to keep it pleasant and comfortable, or make it more pleasant and comfortable) is also an integral to that capitalist / consumer economy.

That is why we are "free", and that is why we are "comfortable". If it benefited those with power and money for us not to be free or comfortable, we would not be free or comfortable.

No way of life is perfect and never will be and there will always those that benefit more than others. But the capitalist system has proved most successful for the majority which is why the majority are relatively content with the way things are and why so many come from less successful economies in their droves. Give me capitalism to dictatorship any day.

Improved education and communication, all part of the capitalist environment, have led to a better understanding and support of human rights and a better life for most. Such a system benefits the majority which is why it is so successful and why so many subscribe to it and why many of those that don't resent those that do.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

No way of life is perfect and never will be and there will always those that benefit more than others. But the capitalist system has proved most successful for the majority which is why the majority are relatively content with the way things are and why so many come from less successful economies in their droves. Give me capitalism to dictatorship any day.

Improved education and communication, all part of the capitalist environment, have led to a better understanding and support of human rights and a better life for most. Such a system benefits the majority which is why it is so successful and why so many subscribe to it and why many of those that don't resent those that do.

I'm not saying that we aren't comparatively lucky to live comfortable lives and have a higher degree of personal freedom than most. I am aware that the majority of the world's population have it "worse" in many ways (although not in every way, in my opinion, but that's another debate).

All I'm disputing is the reasoning for it. We are not comfortable and free because we joined hands and stood up to the minority of rich / powerful people and demanded respect. We are comfortable and free because it benefits that rich and powerful minority for us to be comfortable and free. As soon as it stops being beneficial for those people (hopefully it won't, but if it does) then we can wave our comfort and freedom goodbye. Because whilst we have comfort, and we have freedom, and we (mostly) have a large degree of control over our own lives and decisions, what we certainly don't have is any power or control on a grander scale. We have what we are allowed.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying that we aren't comparatively lucky to live comfortable lives and have a higher degree of personal freedom than most. I am aware that the majority of the world's population have it "worse" in many ways (although not in every way, in my opinion, but that's another debate).

All I'm disputing is the reasoning for it. We are not comfortable and free because we joined hands and stood up to the minority of rich / powerful people and demanded respect. We are comfortable and free because it benefits that rich and powerful minority for us to be comfortable and free. As soon as it stops being beneficial for those people (hopefully it won't, but if it does) then we can wave our comfort and freedom goodbye. Because whilst we have comfort, and we have freedom, and we (mostly) have a large degree of control over our own lives and decisions, what we certainly don't have is any power or control on a grander scale. We have what we are allowed.

I don't disagree with much of what you say but I think we can't go backwards and we (Westerners) are now too educated and free-thinking to accept anything less than what we have and will always stand up and demand certain rights and never wave our comfort and freedom goodbye quietly. I simply don't believe that could happen now.

Which is why such religous dictatorships deny the majority an education and don't allow them the power of free-thought thus denying them a voice and stripping them of any power. They end up totallly brainwashed and believing all the garbage they have been spoon-fed since birth.

I think the reasoning behind our way of life. although not perfect, is less brutal, less controlling and more respectful and compassionate than that of religous dictatorships. What we do have it more control over our lives and more power than those confined by enforced religous doctrine.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Are these Christians planting bombs, taking hostages and beheading them and burning them alive? Are they stoning their own people to death and enforcing control through fear and violence? Are they trying to enforce their so-called beliefs and way of life onto others? Do they have many parts of the world on alert because of their terrorist activities? Another ridiculous comparison from someone trying to be clever but just demonstrating they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Like many, I feel that if the majority of so-called normal Muslims were to speak up more and do more to deal with their own instead of the rest of the world having to do it, maybe I would believe there was less support for their criminal activities from normal Muslims.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities.

Worldwide the Muslim community is extensive, growing at a far greater rate than most other communities - is it really so hard for the majority to deal with the minority assuming of course that normal Muslims are indeed the majority or the extremist Muslims are in the minority.

agreed. its a massive problem that the loony liberals have more than helped to create....its become so mental now , these sickos can bomb the innocent yet its racist for the innocent to say you bombed me