[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This doesn't make sense, I thought Christianity was a peaceful and tolerant religion? Why are these Christians cheering the deaths of innocent people and quoting bible passages that demand allegiance or death? I thought Christianity was far too developed for this. All Christians should be made to apologise and denounce the actions of the Christians in this picture lest they be tarred with the same brush.

At the end of the day it's the extremists that define an entire religion isn't it? All Muslims are obviously Isis supporters that want to spread misery and death through their barbaric religion and Christianity is obviously filled with peadophilic white supremacists that preach hate and rejoice at the deaths of innocent people just because they had the audacity to follow a different god. Who cares about the majority of peaceful followers of both religions? Let's focus on the extreme minority and use that to base our opinion on.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This doesn't make sense, I thought Christianity was a peaceful and tolerant religion? Why are these Christians cheering the deaths of innocent people and quoting bible passages that demand allegiance or death? I thought Christianity was far too developed for this. All Christians should be made to apologise and denounce the actions of the Christians in this picture lest they be tarred with the same brush.

At the end of the day it's the extremists that define an entire religion isn't it? All Muslims are obviously Isis supporters that want to spread misery and death through their barbaric religion and Christianity is obviously filled with peadophilic white supremacists that preach hate and rejoice at the deaths of innocent people just because they had the audacity to follow a different god. Who cares about the majority of peaceful followers of both religions? Let's focus on the extreme minority and use that to base our opinion on.

the billion plus Christians follow Christ not a handful of lunatics from the Midwest, get some perspective

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

the billion plus Christians follow Christ not a handful of lunatics from the Midwest, get some perspective

Your logic is that the minority defines the majority though, you're quick to brand Islam a violent religion due to the actions of a loud minority but you refuse to apply the same logic to your own religion? That's incredibly hypocritical.

[user104658]

Kirk - I have to admit I found your post regarding Obama and Islam to be quite interesting and certainly very thorough. However, my overwhelming feeling when I was reading it was: how sad, and deeply disturbing, that anyone who wants to have a hope of becoming leader of supposedly the most diverse and free country in the world, has to pretend to be a devout Christian to stand a chance.

It is sinister that he concealed his past and feigned allegiance to Christianity to succeed in US politics. But it's not the act of concealment that is sinister - but the very fact that he would simply have HAD to, or else be rejected by the people there.

Is that not strange?

Why is it essential that a US president be a devout Christian? Why is anything else considered "dark" or "sinister"? Of course this is a rhetorical question. I already know why.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk - I have to admit I found your post regarding Obama and Islam to be quite interesting and certainly very thorough. However, my overwhelming feeling when I was reading it was: how sad, and deeply disturbing, that anyone who wants to have a hope of becoming leader of supposedly the most diverse and free country in the world, has to pretend to be a devout Christian to stand a chance.

It is sinister that he concealed his past and feigned allegiance to Christianity to succeed in US politics. But it's not the act of concealment that is sinister - but the very fact that he would simply have HAD to, or else be rejected by the people there.

Is that not strange?

Why is it essential that a US president be a devout Christian? Why is anything else considered "dark" or "sinister"? Of course this is a rhetorical question. I already know why.

I agree that him being Muslim should have no bearing on whether he would make a good President or not - in my book it shouldn't, and I don't really know just why he did not be honest from the start.

You might be right and he may have been advised from the start of his political ambition that he would have to conceal his true faith and 'adopt' Christianity in order to stand any chance of realising that ambition, but I think that was bad advice because the truth was bound to surface at some point.

I do have a real problem with his 'charade', but on a personal level, I have a greater problem - not with his 'feigned allegiance to Christianity' as you termed it - but with his increasingly evident anti-Christian attitude, because he has started to actually mock the very faith he 'adopted' in order to attain the presidency -- no matter what genuine reasons he may have had to feign such allegiance in the first place.

I don't profess to know all the answers T.S. but I can't help having my suspicions in light of what I regard as overwhelming evidence which justifies the many questions which do need answering about this 'iffy' matter.

[lostalex]

Islam as an organization and philosophy is more evil than the KKK.

[Alf]

The free Western World with Christian values are not only at war with a medievil barbaric religion, but we're also at war with the looney liberal left who seem to think that westerners are the oppressers and every one else are the oppressed.


Enoch was right.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by wannashag

The free Western World with Christian values are not only at war with a medievil barbaric religion, but we're also at war with the looney liberal left who seem to think that westerners are the oppressers and every one else are the oppressed.


Enoch was right.

Not sure I agree with the Enoch comment, but the rest of it is pretty close to the truth.

Nice to see you wannashag!

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This doesn't make sense, I thought Christianity was a peaceful and tolerant religion? Why are these Christians cheering the deaths of innocent people and quoting bible passages that demand allegiance or death? I thought Christianity was far too developed for this. All Christians should be made to apologise and denounce the actions of the Christians in this picture lest they be tarred with the same brush.

At the end of the day it's the extremists that define an entire religion isn't it? All Muslims are obviously Isis supporters that want to spread misery and death through their barbaric religion and Christianity is obviously filled with peadophilic white supremacists that preach hate and rejoice at the deaths of innocent people just because they had the audacity to follow a different god. Who cares about the majority of peaceful followers of both religions? Let's focus on the extreme minority and use that to base our opinion on.

Are these Christians planting bombs, taking hostages and beheading them and burning them alive? Are they stoning their own people to death and enforcing control through fear and violence? Are they trying to enforce their so-called beliefs and way of life onto others? Do they have many parts of the world on alert because of their terrorist activities? Another ridiculous comparison from someone trying to be clever but just demonstrating they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Like many, I feel that if the majority of so-called normal Muslims were to speak up more and do more to deal with their own instead of the rest of the world having to do it, maybe I would believe there was less support for their criminal activities from normal Muslims.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities.

Worldwide the Muslim community is extensive, growing at a far greater rate than most other communities - is it really so hard for the majority to deal with the minority assuming of course that normal Muslims are indeed the majority or the extremist Muslims are in the minority.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Are these Christians planting bombs, taking hostages and beheading them and burning them alive? Are they stoning their own people to death and enforcing control through fear and violence? Are they trying to enforce their so-called beliefs and way of life onto others? Do they have many parts of the world on alert because of their terrorist activities? Another ridiculous comparison from someone trying to be clever but just demonstrating they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Like many, I feel that if the majority of so-called normal Muslims were to speak up more and do more to deal with their own instead of the rest of the world having to do it, maybe I would believe there was less support for their criminal activities from normal Muslims.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities.

Worldwide the Muslim community is extensive, growing at a far greater rate than most other communities - is it really so hard for the majority to deal with the minority assuming of course that normal Muslims are indeed the majority or the extremist Muslims are in the minority.

Still hypocritical, you expect all Muslims to atone for the sins of the few extremists yet you aren't prepared to hold other religions to the same standard. You can't pick or choose, it's all or nothing.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Still hypocritical, you expect all Muslims to atone for the sins of the few extremists yet you aren't prepared to hold other religions to the same standard. You can't pick or choose, it's all or nothing.

Again you miss the point.

Firstly are the extremists in the minority? If so why don't the majority do more to deal with the minority. At the end of the day the majority have the power so it is hardly any surprise that many doubt exactly who is and is not in the majority.

Secondly I am living in the present not the past. It is the Muslim religion causing all the problems today and threatening world peace, which of course affects all of us.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities..

A common misconception. The western world has more personal freedom because it revolves around capitalism, and because the people who are running things benefit hugely from that capitalism and exploiting a free (or more or less free) market with huge numbers of relatively well off, relatively frivolous consumers.

Freedom and lack of oppression is essential to that consumer economy. Having a pleasant, comfortable life (and having a desire to keep it pleasant and comfortable, or make it more pleasant and comfortable) is also an integral to that capitalist / consumer economy.

That is why we are "free", and that is why we are "comfortable". If it benefited those with power and money for us not to be free or comfortable, we would not be free or comfortable.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Your logic is that the minority defines the majority though, you're quick to brand Islam a violent religion due to the actions of a loud minority but you refuse to apply the same logic to your own religion? That's incredibly hypocritical.

your comparing an ant-hill with an Everest of terrorism.....a misguided family of idiots from the sticks who have spouted drivel and carried out zero terrorist attacks compared with the worldwide terrorism of radical islam....your desperate moral relativity would be embarrassing from a 5 year old child who had no knowledge of the world

[the truth]

Originally Posted by wannashag

The free Western World with Christian values are not only at war with a medievil barbaric religion, but we're also at war with the looney liberal left who seem to think that westerners are the oppressers and every one else are the oppressed.


Enoch was right.

True

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Still hypocritical, you expect all Muslims to atone for the sins of the few extremists yet you aren't prepared to hold other religions to the same standard. You can't pick or choose, it's all or nothing.

He never said that.....But muslim leaders , the muslim councils and those who have some authority should unite loudly as one to denounce the mass spread of radical islam terrorism....Obama needs to stop fudging this, the problem is with radical islam and radial Judaism / Zionism too

[the truth]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Are these Christians planting bombs, taking hostages and beheading them and burning them alive? Are they stoning their own people to death and enforcing control through fear and violence? Are they trying to enforce their so-called beliefs and way of life onto others? Do they have many parts of the world on alert because of their terrorist activities? Another ridiculous comparison from someone trying to be clever but just demonstrating they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Like many, I feel that if the majority of so-called normal Muslims were to speak up more and do more to deal with their own instead of the rest of the world having to do it, maybe I would believe there was less support for their criminal activities from normal Muslims.

The Western world has more freedom and less oppression because the majority (normal people) wanted it and have worked together to make it happen by standing up to the minority and not turning a blind eye to their activities.

Worldwide the Muslim community is extensive, growing at a far greater rate than most other communities - is it really so hard for the majority to deal with the minority assuming of course that normal Muslims are indeed the majority or the extremist Muslims are in the minority.

agreed. its a massive problem that the loony liberals have more than helped to create....its become so mental now , these sickos can bomb the innocent yet its racist for the innocent to say you bombed me

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A common misconception. The western world has more personal freedom because it revolves around capitalism, and because the people who are running things benefit hugely from that capitalism and exploiting a free (or more or less free) market with huge numbers of relatively well off, relatively frivolous consumers.

Freedom and lack of oppression is essential to that consumer economy. Having a pleasant, comfortable life (and having a desire to keep it pleasant and comfortable, or make it more pleasant and comfortable) is also an integral to that capitalist / consumer economy.

That is why we are "free", and that is why we are "comfortable". If it benefited those with power and money for us not to be free or comfortable, we would not be free or comfortable.

No way of life is perfect and never will be and there will always those that benefit more than others. But the capitalist system has proved most successful for the majority which is why the majority are relatively content with the way things are and why so many come from less successful economies in their droves. Give me capitalism to dictatorship any day.

Improved education and communication, all part of the capitalist environment, have led to a better understanding and support of human rights and a better life for most. Such a system benefits the majority which is why it is so successful and why so many subscribe to it and why many of those that don't resent those that do.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

No way of life is perfect and never will be and there will always those that benefit more than others. But the capitalist system has proved most successful for the majority which is why the majority are relatively content with the way things are and why so many come from less successful economies in their droves. Give me capitalism to dictatorship any day.

Improved education and communication, all part of the capitalist environment, have led to a better understanding and support of human rights and a better life for most. Such a system benefits the majority which is why it is so successful and why so many subscribe to it and why many of those that don't resent those that do.

I'm not saying that we aren't comparatively lucky to live comfortable lives and have a higher degree of personal freedom than most. I am aware that the majority of the world's population have it "worse" in many ways (although not in every way, in my opinion, but that's another debate).

All I'm disputing is the reasoning for it. We are not comfortable and free because we joined hands and stood up to the minority of rich / powerful people and demanded respect. We are comfortable and free because it benefits that rich and powerful minority for us to be comfortable and free. As soon as it stops being beneficial for those people (hopefully it won't, but if it does) then we can wave our comfort and freedom goodbye. Because whilst we have comfort, and we have freedom, and we (mostly) have a large degree of control over our own lives and decisions, what we certainly don't have is any power or control on a grander scale. We have what we are allowed.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying that we aren't comparatively lucky to live comfortable lives and have a higher degree of personal freedom than most. I am aware that the majority of the world's population have it "worse" in many ways (although not in every way, in my opinion, but that's another debate).

All I'm disputing is the reasoning for it. We are not comfortable and free because we joined hands and stood up to the minority of rich / powerful people and demanded respect. We are comfortable and free because it benefits that rich and powerful minority for us to be comfortable and free. As soon as it stops being beneficial for those people (hopefully it won't, but if it does) then we can wave our comfort and freedom goodbye. Because whilst we have comfort, and we have freedom, and we (mostly) have a large degree of control over our own lives and decisions, what we certainly don't have is any power or control on a grander scale. We have what we are allowed.

I don't disagree with much of what you say but I think we can't go backwards and we (Westerners) are now too educated and free-thinking to accept anything less than what we have and will always stand up and demand certain rights and never wave our comfort and freedom goodbye quietly. I simply don't believe that could happen now.

Which is why such religous dictatorships deny the majority an education and don't allow them the power of free-thought thus denying them a voice and stripping them of any power. They end up totallly brainwashed and believing all the garbage they have been spoon-fed since birth.

I think the reasoning behind our way of life. although not perfect, is less brutal, less controlling and more respectful and compassionate than that of religous dictatorships. What we do have it more control over our lives and more power than those confined by enforced religous doctrine.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Again you miss the point.

Firstly are the extremists in the minority? If so why don't the majority do more to deal with the minority. At the end of the day the majority have the power so it is hardly any surprise that many doubt exactly who is and is not in the majority.

Secondly I am living in the present not the past. It is the Muslim religion causing all the problems today and threatening world peace, which of course affects all of us.

I didn't miss any point, you just refuse to understand.

The extremists are obviously the minority, they're just a loud and organised one and they're hard for the military forces of the world to stop so why do you expect your average Muslim to be able to do anything? Would you expect the same from Christians if Isis was a Christian organisation? I'm guessing you wouldn't, well, I KNOW you wouldn't.

Also it's not Islam that's causing problems, It's extremists that are using the religion that's causing the problems, the fact you can't differentiate between a Muslim and a terrorist is just sad. I dislike religion because of extremists but it's not only Islam that's guilty of having extremist groups that use their faith for their own gain. Like ?I've said plenty of times in this topic, all religions are basically the same, it's foolish to argue against one and defend another.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

He never said that.....But muslim leaders , the muslim councils and those who have some authority should unite loudly as one to denounce the mass spread of radical islam terrorism....Obama needs to stop fudging this, the problem is with radical islam and radial Judaism / Zionism too

There's been plenty of anti-isis movements and protests from the muslim community but you act like they're condoning Isis because you're only looking to the mainstream media for answers. The media will never paint muslims in a good light, they earn too much money from Muslims being the evil boogeymen to scare people like you into buying their papers and buying into their crap.

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

Not only that, but currently the ONLY really feet in boots on the ground fighting against the main ISIS forces are Muslims. Or, in fact, progressive non-religious groups of people who come from Muslim backgrounds (something that the mass media would have us believe don't actually exist, because people are murdered if they try to leave Islam).

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's been plenty of anti-isis movements and protests from the muslim community but you act like they're condoning Isis because you're only looking to the mainstream media for answers. The media will never paint muslims in a good light, they earn too much money from Muslims being the evil boogeymen to scare people like you into buying their papers and buying into their crap.

Muslims have spoken out against Isis and extremism but they'll never get highlighted in the media since it doesn't fit with what the media's image of Islam is, thus it gets ignored. The media will only ever typically highlight stories that paint Muslims in a bad light.

I'm sorry but you're obsessed with the media and your belief that they are intent on undermining all Muslims. Whether or not there is any truth in that you are out of order implying that you are the only one clued-up enough to see that.

According to you everyone who is distrustful of the Muslim religon is brainwashed by the media and most likely middle-aged women terrified of them because they are not like us. You wish. Patronising garbage.

On point, some Muslims may have spoken out, but not enough. They don't have to be congregating on street corners with anti-British banners to support extremist activity. Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. If it were simply a small minority of young British Muslims going abroad and taking up arms against Britain and becoming involved in terrorist activity that would not be so worrying, but there are increasing numbers of them doing so.

We are told Muslims are very respectful of their parents and their beliefs so if their parents are bringing them up to respect Britain and are denouncing the extremists, why are they so full of hate for the British. Where does it come from? Home seems an obvious start.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

I'm sorry but you're obsessed with the media and your belief that they are intent on undermining all Muslims. Whether or not there is any truth in that you are out of order implying that you are the only one clued-up enough to see that.

According to you everyone who is distrustful of the Muslim religon is brainwashed by the media and most likely middle-aged women terrified of them because they are not like us. You wish. Patronising garbage.

On point, some Muslims may have spoken out, but not enough. They don't have to be congregating on street corners with anti-British banners to support extremist activity. Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. If it were simply a small minority of young British Muslims going abroad and taking up arms against Britain and becoming involved in terrorist activity that would not be so worrying, but there are increasing numbers of them doing so.

We are told Muslims are very respectful of their parents and their beliefs so if their parents are bringing them up to respect Britain and are denouncing the extremists, why are they so full of hate for the British. Where does it come from? Home seems an obvious start.

A million Muslims could unite in the middle of Trafalgar Square and have a massive protest against Isis and Extremism and it still would not be enough for you, nothing ever will. It's much easier to blame the Muslims and think them all terrorists isn't it?

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

A million Muslims could unite in the middle of Trafalgar Square and have a massive protest against Isis and Extremism and it still would not be enough for you, nothing ever will. It's much easier to blame the Muslims and think them all terrorists isn't it?

I don't know what would be enough, but what we are getting now, which is practically nothing, is not it. The parents of these Muslim men publicly disowning them would be a start.