[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But they are following the teaching of their religion, it doesn't automatically follow that they have negative attitudes to gays! Just that perhaps they like to stick to the code laid down by their religion.

Well I didn't want to put it so bluntly but it has come to that. Religion is belief, homosexuality is fact, if these people don't believe that these people should be allowed to love each other or find each other attractive then they fit into a category with other people who think like them. I haven't said anything bad about homophobia, I just said that these people are homophobic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly.

Exactly what? ... you're hypothetical modern religion analogy proves nothing.
It has nothing to do with this as the onus is on established religious beliefs, they cannot be changed along with cultural norms.
He hasn't incited any hatred or made public his view it was his own personal interpretation of text. If we seek to change what would that entail?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Why did my brain automatically turn that into an image of mud wrestling?

Just the track your brain takes, Jess, I guess.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Exactly what? ... you're hypothetical modern religion analogy proves nothing.
It has nothing to do with this as the onus is on established religious beliefs, they cannot be changed along with cultural norms.
He hasn't incited any hatred or made public his view it was his own personal interpretation of text. If we seek to change what would that entail?

Exactly as in people wouldn't get away with starting up a religion nowadays with such out dated, sexist and homophobic views so therefore we should not allow already existing religions that hold similar views get away with discrimination just because they say it's part of their religious beliefs. I mean if Religious people are allowed to discriminate because of their religion but non religious people aren't isn't that discriminating against non religious homophobes?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Yes.....I know that

I guess what I'm saying is although I don't agree with the Printer's reasons for not giving work to this person, I have to accept that the printer has the final say in who he gives work to and if through some outdated misguided religious dogma he feels unable to associate with Gay people then that is his problem.

But to try and publicize and call for his business to be ruined or for him to face some kind of legal redress for holding these religious views is also wrong.

You cannot force someone to take an unfamiliar or alien view only educate them so they realise their traditional view is unfair,unjust and has no place in the modern World.

So you don't agree that he shouldn't do the work on religious grounds but on the basis that he just dislikes homosexuals it's ok?
I don't think I subscribe to that, and you would have to have been living in a cave for the last 20yrs to not know that cultural norms relating to homosexuality have moved on.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly as in people wouldn't get away with starting up a religion nowadays with such out dated, sexist and homophobic views so therefore we should not allow already existing religions that hold similar views get away with discrimination just because they say it's part of their religious beliefs. I mean if Religious people are allowed to discriminate because of their religion but non religious people aren't isn't that discriminating against non religious homophobes?

I guess Atheist's could say it was their Humanist views and these views should not be considered inferior to religious views. This would mean they have an equal right to be discriminatory against Gays and/or Gay Marriage.

[Cherie]

Nobody said the guy who wouldn't let Rhianna get her knockers out in a video on his farm had a negative attitude towards women, it just didn't fit with his values, and that was the end of it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly as in people wouldn't get away with starting up a religion nowadays with such out dated, sexist and homophobic views so therefore we should not allow already existing religions that hold similar views get away with discrimination just because they say it's part of their religious beliefs. I mean if Religious people are allowed to discriminate because of their religion but non religious people aren't isn't that discriminating against non religious homophobes?

We can't change what was written thousands of years ago.
You could suggest the bible is hate propaganda and call for it to be burned... good luck with that.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I guess Atheist's could say it was their Humanist views and these views should not be considered inferior to religious views. This would mean they have an equal right to be discriminatory against Gays and/or Gay Marriage.

That doesn't make sense at all, I'm sure there are plenty of homophobic atheists and if the printers were atheists and refused to print the invitations for this couple, I'm sure the couple would still feel discriminated against.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So you don't agree that he shouldn't do the work on religious grounds but on the basis that he just dislikes homosexuals it's ok?
I don't think I subscribe to that, and you would have to have been living in a cave for the last 20yrs to not know that cultural norms relating to homosexuality have moved on.

Er....No I'm not saying that at all

Read my post again, I can't make it any simpler to understand.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

That doesn't make sense at all, I'm sure there are plenty of homophobic atheists and if the printers were atheists and refused to print the invitations for this couple, I'm sure the couple would still feel discriminated against.

It wasn't supposed to..........

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I guess Atheist's could say it was their Humanist views and these views should not be considered inferior to religious views. This would mean they have an equal right to be discriminatory against Gays and/or Gay Marriage.

And it would be completely wrong, just like this is

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nobody said the guy who wouldn't let Rhianna get her knockers out in a video on his farm had a negative attitude towards women, it just didn't fit with his values, and that was the end of it.

I don't really think they're comparable

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We can't change what was written thousands of years ago.
You could suggest the bible is hate propaganda and call for it to be burned... good luck with that.

Or I could just suggest what I have been all through this thread, that discrimination like this should not be tolerated by our governments

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Er....No I'm not saying that at all

Read my post again, I can't make it any simpler to understand.

Then explain 'traditional view' to me... I don't understand this term.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Or I could just suggest what I have been all through this thread, that discrimination like this should not be tolerated by our governments

There are hate laws in place to prohibit inciting discrimination via any means, what has this to do with personal views?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There are hate laws in place to prohibit inciting discrimination via any means, what has this to do with personal views?

You've actually lost me now Kizzy.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And it would be completely wrong, just like this is



I don't really think they're comparable



Or I could just suggest what I have been all through this thread, that discrimination like this should not be tolerated by our governments

Why are they not comparable? The farmer exercised his rights to do as he felt and believed on his property, the printer is doing the same, is he not being discriminated against for his beliefs?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You've actually lost me now Kizzy.

You said it shouldn't be tolerated by government, they aren't.
But until we get rid of all churches and have thought police individuals with religious views can think as they like.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Why are they not comparable? The farmer exercised his rights to do as he felt and believed on his property, the printer is doing the same, is he not being discriminated against for his beliefs?

There's a difference between stripping off on someones property and refusing to work with a person because they are a stripper

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You said it shouldn't be tolerated by government, they aren't.
But until we get rid of all churches and have thought police individuals with religious views can think as they like.

Sure they can think what they like lol, when did I ever say they couldn't?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Niamh.;7627049]There's a difference between stripping off on someones property and refusing to work with a person because they are a stripper

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sure they can think what they like lol, when did I ever say they couldn't?

Based on those thoughts they can offer their services....or not.
That is the crux of the problem isn't it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Based on those thoughts they can offer their services....or not.
That is the crux of the problem isn't it?

Well no they shouldn't be allowed discriminate because of their homophobic thoughts

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then explain 'traditional view' to me... I don't understand this term.

I have read my post again and yes the word "traditional" is not needed in the context of what I am saying.

So read again but omit the word traditional

Cheers.............

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well no they shouldn't be allowed discriminate because of their homophobic thoughts

You just contradicted yourself, you said people with religious views can think what they like.. and now they can't as they'll be labeled homophobic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I have read my post again and yes the word "traditional" is not needed in the context of what I am saying.

So read again but omit the word traditional

Cheers.............

No, I won't bother I think I got the measure of it the first time.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You just contradicted yourself, you said people with religious views can think what they like.. and now they can't as they'll be labeled homophobic.

How is that contradictory? They can think what they like obviously it's their own heads lol that doesn't mean that those thoughts aren't homophobic