[kirklancaster]

QUOTE JOSY: "You had already posted the same links three times before Karl asked you what you found wrong with the movie though Kirk.[/B]

Not so in actuality Josy - I do not know if you have the technological means to check, but I actually went back into my responses as an afterthought and edited them in order to post the links. If you look back at my posts you will see that Ramsay asked the question at 12:12 AM. and I actually answered him with links at 1.22 am. I then edited the earlier posts to paste in the links at 1,.23 am, 1.23 am, and I think 1.24 am - all AFTER I responded to Ramsay, and hardly giving me time to time to compose individual posts if I was not telling the truth.

"Getting back to the topic at hand..

I think now there is so much information freely available to research on the internet etc, people are becoming a lot more aware of things like religion, having their eyes opened to a lot and realising that maybe we shouldn't always just believe what were are told to."

Exactly my point because this applies as much to anti-Religious articles as it does pro-Religious ones, which is why I responded as I did - that we definitely shouldn't believe everything we are told or what we see or read or watch, without questioning and further research and cross referencing.

I am quite sure that were I to post a lengthy article on 'The Case For Jesus As The Messiah' but unbeknown to me news had broken on the internet that a tomb had been discovered in Jerusalem which contained an intact ossuary complete with bones and an inscription verified as; These are the remains of Yeshua of Nazareth, son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James, who was crucified in the reign of Tiberius etc' - then I am quite sure that my post would be rapidly followed by a dozen or more rebuttal responses

I believe that the first link I provided competently debunks the Jesus/Mithras/Horus claim part of the Zeitgeists movie and my use of it is no different to the above in that the intention was to say; "Don't believe everything you read".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am quite sure that were I to post a lengthy article on 'The Case For Jesus As The Messiah' but unbeknown to me news had broken on the internet that a tomb had been discovered in Jerusalem which contained an intact ossuary complete with bones and an inscription verified as; These are the remains of Yeshua of Nazareth, son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James, who was crucified in the reign of Tiberius etc' - then I am quite sure that my post would be rapidly followed by a dozen or more rebuttal responses from LT, Kizzy, T.S and others, and the responses would range from polite enlightenment to sneering and mocking .

Alot of people don't dispute that such a person may have existed though Kirk, the main thing that I would dispute would be that this person, if he ever existed, was "the son of god" and that he performed miracles, rose from the dead etc

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Alot of people don't dispute that such a person may have existed though Kirk, the main thing that I would dispute would be that this person, if he ever existed, was "the son of god" and that he performed miracles, rose from the dead etc

whether they were all literally miracles or symbollic allegories is a moot point..for once I was blind but now I can see is pretty open to interpretation etc . Regardless of how corrupt a minority of preachers are or how hypocritical some church goers are, the words of the original message are more important than the perversions of corrupt messengers...however its his teachings, the beliefs, the morals and values that surely are the most important lessons to be learned , understood and carried forward.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

whether they were all literally miracles or symbollic allegories is a moot point..for once I was blind but now I can see is pretty open to interpretation etc . Regardless of how corrupt a minority of preachers are or how hypocritical some church goers are, the words of the original message are more important than the perversions of corrupt messengers...however its his teachings, the beliefs, the morals and values that surely are the most important lessons to be learned , understood and carried forward.

Sure but nice messages and beliefs coming from wonderful people aren't specific to religion or a God. It's the miracles and rising from the dead etc that essentially prove that Jesus was the son of God. Being a good and moral person isn't exclusive to religious people

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sure but nice messages and beliefs coming from wonderful people aren't specific to religion or a God. It's the miracles and rising from the dead etc that essentially prove that Jesus was the son of God. Being a good and moral person isn't exclusive to religious people

I agree, but I never said otherwise? I certainly didn't say being a good moral person was exclusive to religion. I cant understand why youd want to tear down Christ. which of his beliefs of teachings do you hate so much youd want to spend your days tearing him down. because whether its your intention or not that is what youre doing.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

I agree, but I never said otherwise? I certainly didn't say being a good moral person was exclusive to religion. I cant understand why youd want to tear down Christ. which of his beliefs of teachings do you hate so much youd want to spend your days tearing him down. because whether its your intention or not that is what youre doing.

I never said you did say otherwise, I was replying to something Kirk said about proving that there was such a person called Jesus

Also, I don't believe in Christ so the rest of your post means nothing to me tbqh

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I never said you did say otherwise, I was replying to something Kirk said about proving that there was such a person called Jesus

Also, I don't believe in Christ so the rest of your post means nothing to me tbqh

you were responding to me and my quote?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

I agree, but I never said otherwise? I certainly didn't say being a good moral person was exclusive to religion. I cant understand why youd want to tear down Christ. which of his beliefs of teachings do you hate so much youd want to spend your days tearing him down. because whether its your intention or not that is what youre doing.

I can't speak for Niamh, but assuming that Jesus as a man did exist, claiming to be the son of a supernatural deity in order to gain a following of cultists is reason enough for me to want to tear someone down...

As it happens, I personally don't believe that the literal Jesus of the Bible ever existed at all. I'm open to the idea that the character was loosely based on a real individual, but the truth of that individual's life would be so far removed from the biblical stories as to make them as good as fiction for all intents and purposes.

With THAT in mind, I no more want to "tear down" Jesus than I want to "tear down" Harry Potter. I just reserve the right to point out that believing in wizards, dragons and house elves is somewhat questionable.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can't speak for Niamh, but assuming that Jesus as a man did exist, claiming to be the son of a supernatural deity in order to gain a following of cultists is reason enough for me to want to tear someone down...

As it happens, I personally don't believe that the literal Jesus of the Bible ever existed at all. I'm open to the idea that the character was loosely based on a real individual, but the truth of that individual's life would be so far removed from the biblical stories as to make them as good as fiction for all intents and purposes.

With THAT in mind, I no more want to "tear down" Jesus than I want to "tear down" Harry Potter. I just reserve the right to point out that believing in wizards, dragons and house elves is somewhat questionable.

so the actual moral values and wisdom and love and content of his teachings should me ignored and mocked and you see no value in any of them? you see no value in the billions they've raised for the sick and poor..the faith beliefs and values they've helped grow in billions, the missionary work to feed cloth and educate the poor etc etc you see no value in his teachings about forgiveness and redemption ? you see no value in any of this?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Alot of people don't dispute that such a person may have existed though Kirk, the main thing that I would dispute would be that this person, if he ever existed, was "the son of god" and that he performed miracles, rose from the dead etc

That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

I'm sure if that unthinkable did happen I wouldn't hear the last of it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

I'm sure if that unthinkable did happen I wouldn't hear the last of it.

Oh my apologies, I misunderstood your post

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh my apologies, I misunderstood your post

No need to apologise Niamh - I'm actually enjoying talking with you.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No need to apologise Niamh - I'm actually enjoying talking with you.

Kiss her, she's Irish.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

I'm sure if that unthinkable did happen I wouldn't hear the last of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...st-claims.html

Geologist claims Jesus was married... and had a SON: Expert says he has proof son of God was buried in 'family tomb' along with wife Mary and his brother

• Geologist ran 150 chemical tests on ossuaries and 'Jesus Family tomb'
• Claims chemical signature proves James Ossuary was at Jerusalem site
• Chalk box bears inscription ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus’
• Find suggests Jesus fathered a child and was married

*opens window*

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...st-claims.html

Geologist claims Jesus was married... and had a SON: Expert says he has proof son of God was buried in 'family tomb' along with wife Mary and his brother

• Geologist ran 150 chemical tests on ossuaries and 'Jesus Family tomb'
• Claims chemical signature proves James Ossuary was at Jerusalem site
• Chalk box bears inscription ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus’
• Find suggests Jesus fathered a child and was married

*opens window*

I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong.

I did not write the article

but at least its 3 days old and not 2000 years

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I did not write the article

but at least its 3 days old and not 2000 years

oh so it must be true then?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong.

So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window. The find would be debunked by whatever means necessary or, if such proved impossible, the scripture would be poured over until it could be reinterpreted to accommodate the new findings. As has been done for hundreds of years.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window. The find would be debunked by whatever means necessary or, if such proved impossible, the scripture would be poured over until it could be reinterpreted to accommodate the new findings. As has been done for hundreds of years.

FFS Why does EVERY atheist on Tibb misinterpret what I am saying? I replied to LT with a very simple: "I dare not answer you LT but you are wrong." So please tell me how you derive from that simple statement; "So what you're saying is... If Jesus' bones ever turned up, the Christian belief system would NOT fly out the window."?

Especially when I had only just stated to Niamh:

"That's what I mean though Niamh - Christians believe that Christ 'rose body and soul' into heaven, so IF his bones/body ever turned up then all our beliefs fly out of the window.

Which is the the exact opposite of what you're claiming that I am saying T.S.

Also in a recent post, I stated - as an unorthodox Christian - that the evidence that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene is irrefutable, which has no bearing on him being the Messiah at all, but there is not one jot of evidence that Christ had children.

Far from it damaging Christianity, the 'James' ossuary is highly embarrassing to atheists and anti-Christians, because if it is a fake it adds nothing to their argument, but if it is real it proves the existence of Jesus.

Finding the ossuary of James does not prove Jesus did not resurrect, and there is no proof of Jesus's bones being in that tomb nor has any bona fide archaeologist or expert ever claimed or suggested that there ever have been.