[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Attempted suicides by overdose are often not "true" suicide attempts (although they do often result in death anyway) but are more ambiguous combination of a cry for help and "not really caring" if death is the end result.

If someone is 100% sure and determined to kill themselves then they will almost always succeed on the first attempt.

Mmmm....i'm not sure i agree as my mum committed suicide on her 7th attempt at an overdose, many of my family said it was a cry for help, and i sort of think that may have been true in the earlier attempts, however after her 6th attempt the doctors told her that if she took another overdose it would kill her as she'd damaged her internal organs, with that knowledge she then went on to kill herself.

We also had a family friend, he was a gentle soul, deeply in love with my cousin, however things didn't work out and after years of unrequited love and lack of direction, he decided to lie on the train tracks and that was that, that to me takes a lot of guts and courage, however i suspect he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Then there was a doctor (she was my doctor), who seemed to have a perfect life, 2 small children, husband who loved her, perfect home, and she took her life with an overdose, she lay down in a grassy area, took her prescription pills and placed a green coloured coat over herself, fell asleep and died, she was found 2 weeks after she went missing under her coat.

My point is that the doctor seemed pretty determined to take her life as it was a remote area, and the coat was the same colour as the area she lay on, whereas my mum always did it in the house where she would be found.

Sorry Niamh and Kizzy just read your posts and yes this topic of conversation is bleak, but some of us have to live with the wondering for ever.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Mmmm....i'm not sure i agree as my mum committed suicide on her 7th attempt at an overdose, many of my family said it was a cry for help, and i sort of think that may have been true in the earlier attempts, however after her 6th attempt the doctors told her that if she took another overdose it would kill her as she'd damaged her internal organs, with that knowledge she then went on to kill herself.

We also had a family friend, he was a gentle soul, deeply in love with my cousin, however things didn't work out and after years of unrequited love and lack of direction, he decided to lie on the train tracks and that was that, that to me takes a lot of guts and courage, however i suspect he may have been under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Then there was a doctor (she was my doctor), who seemed to have a perfect life, 2 small children, husband who loved her, perfect home, and she took her life with an overdose, she lay down in a grassy area, took her prescription pills and placed a green coloured coat over herself, fell asleep and died, she was found 2 weeks after she went missing under her coat.

My point is that the doctor seemed pretty determined to take her life as it was a remote area, and the coat was the same colour as the area she lay on, whereas my mum always did it in the house where she would be found.

Sorry Niamh and Kizzy just read your posts and yes this topic of conversation is bleak, but some of us have to live with the wondering for ever.

I know. I would imagine there's very few people that a suicide hasn't affected in one way or the other at some point in their life. I lost my best friend to suicide when I was 19.

[Vicky.]

I know 4 people who have killed themselves. 1 was via heroin (pretty sure way to go really). One IV'd morphine pills, which tbh is pretty much the same as heroin. One traditional paracetamol and one by slitting her wrists.

All were sucessful on first attempt..probably as they actually wanted to die. I do not believe that people try to commit suicide. If you want to go, you go. I also know one girl (and this is a cry for help scenario) who took 10 paracetamol and phoned an ambulance on herself.

This is taking away from the thread though really. Suicides in general are a big problem, but if the proportion of men to women who kill themselves is higher, then yes, thats another big problem. However I do not believe it helps ANYONE to blame all of mens woes on women. Its unfair to blame women in the media for not speraking out, when no men in the media do anyway. The problem is that men are expected to be 'men'. And 'men' dont talk about their feelings, or let anyone know when they have problems. Its wrong. And to blame the whole issue on evil feminists or whatever, makes a bit of a joke of a very serious topic IMO.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I know 4 people who have killed themselves. 1 was via heroin (pretty sure way to go really). One IV'd morphine pills, which tbh is pretty much the same as heroin. One traditional paracetamol and one by slitting her wrists.

All were sucessful on first attempt..probably as they actually wanted to die. I do not believe that people try to commit suicide. If you want to go, you go. I also know one girl (and this is a cry for help scenario) who took 10 paracetamol and phoned an ambulance on herself.

This is taking away from the thread though really. Suicides in general are a big problem, but if the proportion of men to women who kill themselves is higher, then yes, thats another big problem. However I do not believe it helps ANYONE to blame all of mens woes on women. Its unfair to blame women in the media for not speraking out, when no men in the media do anyway. The problem is that men are expected to be 'men'. And 'men' dont talk about their feelings, or let anyone know when they have problems. Its wrong. And to blame the whole issue on evil feminists or whatever, makes a bit of a joke of a very serious topic IMO.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I know 4 people who have killed themselves. 1 was via heroin (pretty sure way to go really). One IV'd morphine pills, which tbh is pretty much the same as heroin. One traditional paracetamol and one by slitting her wrists.

All were sucessful on first attempt..probably as they actually wanted to die. I do not believe that people try to commit suicide. If you want to go, you go. I also know one girl (and this is a cry for help scenario) who took 10 paracetamol and phoned an ambulance on herself.

This is taking away from the thread though really. Suicides in general are a big problem, but if the proportion of men to women who kill themselves is higher, then yes, thats another big problem. However I do not believe it helps ANYONE to blame all of mens woes on women. Its unfair to blame women in the media for not speraking out, when no men in the media do anyway. The problem is that men are expected to be 'men'. And 'men' dont talk about their feelings, or let anyone know when they have problems. Its wrong. And to blame the whole issue on evil feminists or whatever, makes a bit of a joke of a very serious topic IMO.

I completely agree, the person who takes their life has done it to themselves, they are responsible for their own actions, there may have been factors that attributed for them to make that decision, but imo, there is help out there for everybody to access, and suicide should not be blamed on anyone.

[user104658]

My mum had I think three suicide attempts by overdose, too. None successful, at least not technically, they certainly contributed to the damage to her liver (along with alcohol and a daily list of painkillers, antidepressants and other prescription meds as long as my arm) that eventually killed her. The thing is she had been told repeatedly that the damage was getting worse and worse and was told a year before her death that her liver was damaged and if she didn't improve things it would inevitably be fatal. If a nothing she simply got worse. She talked a lot about wanting to die / being better off dead but she spent a month on her death bed, and certainly at that point did not want to die. Which makes me wonder if her earlier attempts were, at least subconsciously, deliberately uncertain in outcome.

Sorry everyone this thread really is depressing now :/. Then again, the thread title hardly suggests frivolity!

[RichardG]

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by RichardG

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

Good Luck tomorrow Richard

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My mum had I think three suicide attempts by overdose, too. None successful, at least not technically, they certainly contributed to the damage to her liver (along with alcohol and a daily list of painkillers, antidepressants and other prescription meds as long as my arm) that eventually killed her. The thing is she had been told repeatedly that the damage was getting worse and worse and was told a year before her death that her liver was damaged and if she didn't improve things it would inevitably be fatal. If a nothing she simply got worse. She talked a lot about wanting to die / being better off dead but she spent a month on her death bed, and certainly at that point did not want to die. Which makes me wonder if her earlier attempts were, at least subconsciously, deliberately uncertain in outcome.

Sorry everyone this thread really is depressing now :/. Then again, the thread title hardly suggests frivolity!

This sentence just made me lol

I know what you're saying TS, it's like being hellbent on dying then when it's here not wanting to go and regretting past actions.

Sorry about your mum.....

[RichardG]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Good Luck tomorrow Richard

thanks

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by RichardG

The help is available for men just as much as it is for women. I've been going through a lot recently and just this Monday I went to my GP and already I've got an appointment for CBT tomorrow morning. People just need to move on from the silly idea that men are void of any emotion or feelings. If you're struggling, go to your GP. If they're half decent at their job then they're always there to help.

Brilliant Richard!

I'm glad you're getting the help you need.

My nephew was struggling with his mental health, he went to see a doctor, and he's also having cbt, he's got counselling sessions booked and he's on anti depressants, he's only 17, but i'm so proud of the fact that he knew he needed help and sought it out.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

[/B]

This sentence just made me lol

I know what you're saying TS, it's like being hellbent on dying then when it's here not wanting to go and regretting past actions.

Sorry about your mum.....

And yours, rubymoo.

Regarding it being a person's on responsibility (mentioned earlier, only just saw it now) I think it's very complicated. For a lot of people, and certainly for my mother, they feel like they are already gone and so seeking help is pointless.

Like I mentioned she was terrified and filled with regret in her death bed. It was horrific, to be honest. But her regret wasn't for any one incident or for that final year that killed her, she wasn't scared to die in the sense of wanting to go back to the life she had, her regret was that she would have taken back and completely redone the last fifteen or twenty years of her life. She felt like it was too late for her, that the "her" she knew and had wanted and expected to be had already been dead for years. I'll be brutally honest and say that I too feel like my mum, as a person, has been dead for a decade but she's only been physically gone for a year.

Anyway... I guess my point is that it's a catch 22. A person can only get help for themselves and in the end, can only help themselves - but to be interested in seeking help a person already needs to have that faint spark of hope in there somewhere. And that's half the battle. For those who feel completely hopeless, asking or telling them to seek help for themselves is quite pointless.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And yours, rubymoo.

Regarding it being a person's on responsibility (mentioned earlier, only just saw it now) I think it's very complicated. For a lot of people, and certainly for my mother, they feel like they are already gone and so seeking help is pointless.

Like I mentioned she was terrified and filled with regret in her death bed. It was horrific, to be honest. But her regret wasn't for any one incident or for that final year that killed her, she wasn't scared to die in the sense of wanting to go back to the life she had, her regret was that she would have taken back and completely redone the last fifteen or twenty years of her life. She felt like it was too late for her, that the "her" she knew and had wanted and expected to be had already been dead for years. I'll be brutally honest and say that I too feel like my mum, as a person, has been dead for a decade but she's only been physically gone for a year.

Anyway... I guess my point is that it's a catch 22. A person can only get help for themselves and in the end, can only help themselves - but to be interested in seeking help a person already needs to have that faint spark of hope in there somewhere. And that's half the battle. For those who feel completely hopeless, asking or telling them to seek help for themselves is quite pointless.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And yours, rubymoo.

Regarding it being a person's on responsibility (mentioned earlier, only just saw it now) I think it's very complicated. For a lot of people, and certainly for my mother, they feel like they are already gone and so seeking help is pointless.

Like I mentioned she was terrified and filled with regret in her death bed. It was horrific, to be honest. But her regret wasn't for any one incident or for that final year that killed her, she wasn't scared to die in the sense of wanting to go back to the life she had, her regret was that she would have taken back and completely redone the last fifteen or twenty years of her life. She felt like it was too late for her, that the "her" she knew and had wanted and expected to be had already been dead for years. I'll be brutally honest and say that I too feel like my mum, as a person, has been dead for a decade but she's only been physically gone for a year.

Anyway... I guess my point is that it's a catch 22. A person can only get help for themselves and in the end, can only help themselves - but to be interested in seeking help a person already needs to have that faint spark of hope in there somewhere. And that's half the battle. For those who feel completely hopeless, asking or telling them to seek help for themselves is quite pointless.

I'm sorry to hear that about your mom TS

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

This is true. I used to do that, but now that i talk about how i feel it helps me to be stronger. Men don't talk about their problems.

they have far fewer people to talk to....nhs mental health spending on women is 4 times greater than on men as is overall nhs spending...worse still the number of female charities outnumbers mens by 40 to 1....in other words virtually nothing is being done to help these men. when you add how biased the law courts are in favour of women and how anti male politicians are then you have this record high of male suicides. its obvious uk has become an anti male sexist society and of course much of the blame for that lies with feminists.

[arista]

Yes a good Report from this Reporter Jack

Of course men bottle it up

Women talk more

I learnt nothing new from this BBC Docu
shown on BBCNewsHD

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

they have far fewer people to talk to....nhs mental health spending on women is 4 times greater than on men as is overall nhs spending...worse still the number of female charities outnumbers mens by 40 to 1....in other words virtually nothing is being done to help these men. when you add how biased the law courts are in favour of women and how anti male politicians are then you have this record high of male suicides. its obvious uk has become an anti male sexist society and of course much of the blame for that lies with feminists.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation though, truth. The reason women have more people to talk to is because women are in general more willing to talk. The supply exists to meet the demand, in this case. There are fewer services for men seeking therapy or just someone to listen to, because fewer men are requesting or seeking out those services.

There are cultural reasons for this and probably biological reasons, too: while men and women should be equal, let's not pretend that we are the same. Women are more inclined to seek social contact and groups when they are in trouble, men are more inclined to internalise and try (often ineffectively) to deal with things alone.

Im not saying that the same things don't help both, they do, just that taking that first step in seeking it (even just going to a GP, for all sorts of issues, mental and physical) is more common for women than for men and that's why there are more services and spending is higher. I doubt it's deliberate or with any reason beyond that.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation though, truth. The reason women have more people to talk to is because women are in general more willing to talk. The supply exists to meet the demand, in this case. There are fewer services for men seeking therapy or just someone to listen to, because fewer men are requesting or seeking out those services.

There are cultural reasons for this and probably biological reasons, too: while men and women should be equal, let's not pretend that we are the same. Women are more inclined to seek social contact and groups when they are in trouble, men are more inclined to internalise and try (often ineffectively) to deal with things alone.

Im not saying that the same things don't help both, they do, just that taking that first step in seeking it (even just going to a GP, for all sorts of issues, mental and physical) is more common for women than for men and that's why there are more services and spending is higher. I doubt it's deliberate or with any reason beyond that.

it doesn't justify whatsoever the lack of help for men...also I do not think women are remotely better at listening...another factor is men have less time because on average still they get less time off work, less are taking benefits, more worker longer hours, often in harder more physically demanding jobs...add to that almost no help with mental health far less help with all other issues , also fighting against the system in the family and divorce law courts and its a massive raft of issues that are making mens lives in this country utterly insufferable...they see no way out other than to jump off a bridge...by the way when men do talk they ALWAYS get shouted down as sexist mysoginist pigs due to the reverse sexism in this country...women sentences are tiny compared to mens, even for violent crime , even in some cases murder...they incite violence yet get away with it, why? well it would be cruel to take a mother away from her children wouldn't it? women are more crude and plain rude in in their everyday behaviour in a way men do find offensive but men don't complain because they know it wont be taken seriously...yet a woman complains and all hell breaks loose...even when it turns out to be a pack of lies in rape trials women walk free? why?

this is a war created by the rich....men and women need not fight at all....but the rich have allowed this nonsense one sided feminist lies and propaganda to go on for decades unanswered...why you ask? well theyre too busy selling weapons of mass destruction, rigging stock markets etc leave us little people argue amongst ourselves

[user104658]

I'm not sure I agree with all of what you're saying Truth, I don't think either "average men" or "average women" have it worse / better, just different sides of the same "sort of rubbish" coin.

I do completely agree with the last paragraph, however. The battle of the sexes - alongside the "benefits scum" battle between the working and middle classes - are deliberate distractions constructed by people who have obvious reasons for wanting to keep us all distracted.

You can see this every day, with the latest "twerking scandal" tirade or "shock" set of nude celebrity leaks (and the "rape culture" implications) dominating the headlines on the same days that serious incidents of banking corruption and unscrupulous warmongers profiting from endless death and destruction get buried in the mid pages... And only the mid pages of certain news sources. You won't find it at all in the tabloid trash that people are so quick to lap up.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

they have far fewer people to talk to....nhs mental health spending on women is 4 times greater than on men as is overall nhs spending...worse still the number of female charities outnumbers mens by 40 to 1....in other words virtually nothing is being done to help these men. when you add how biased the law courts are in favour of women and how anti male politicians are then you have this record high of male suicides. its obvious uk has become an anti male sexist society and of course much of the blame for that lies with feminists.

Again though, is this not because fewer men seek help? NHS is there for everyone and if men told their doctors how they were feeling they would surely get referred for therapy or something same as women did right?

The charity thing, again I didn't know charities were gender selective. And haven't been able to find anything to back it up either?

The court thing IS a massive issue that I wish the government would tackle. Its an issue quite close to me too tbh, Gavs been fighting for his other kids since I got with him and is getting nowhere, despite his ex pretty much neglecting them at every turn :S The way the law works though, again cannot just be blamed on women

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

by the way when men do talk they ALWAYS get shouted down as sexist mysoginist pigs due to the reverse sexism in this country...

I have yet to see a bloke who opens up about his feelings and woes being labelled a misogynistic pig when the things he is saying are not all about hating on women or seeing women as beneath him?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Again though, is this not because fewer men seek help? NHS is there for everyone and if men told their doctors how they were feeling they would surely get referred for therapy or something same as women did right?

The charity thing, again I didn't know charities were gender selective. And haven't been able to find anything to back it up either?

The court thing IS a massive issue that I wish the government would tackle. Its an issue quite close to me too tbh, Gavs been fighting for his other kids since I got with him and is getting nowhere, despite his ex pretty much neglecting them at every turn :S The way the law works though, again cannot just be blamed on women

Same with my Gav (although not anymore as my step son is 16 now and has moved in with us of his own accord) Times changed but the Law didn't.

[user104658]

A girl I work with's partner is trying to get custody of his son, even has evidence that the boys mother has been sending him into town for groceries on his own. He's 5. Total madness. But because he has no signs of being physically abused or neglected in terms of being fed / clothed, no one is interested at all.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A girl I work with's partner is trying to get custody of his son, even has evidence that the boys mother has been sending him into town for groceries on his own. He's 5. Total madness. But because he has no signs of being physically abused or neglected in terms of being fed / clothed, no one is interested at all.

its the same sexist disastrous biased situation across the whole country...its an absolute disgrace.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I have yet to see a bloke who opens up about his feelings and woes being labelled a misogynistic pig when the things he is saying are not all about hating on women or seeing women as beneath him?

the problem is the exact opposite....women see men as beneath them and see them as fundamentally less moral and lessworthy of their childrens love...the law courts have been perverted the same way....they should be impartial and less biased in favour of women and mothers. feminists especially pedal this victim mentality for women , telling women that all men think women are beneath them, which is a compete and utter lie....it works for the radical feminists though as it gives them a platform and sells their hate filled books