[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Calm down you little tinker, if you could hear how I say what I say you would hear it all done softly.
I know you are one of the most decent people on here and even in your 'harder' line at times, you still make valid points

In fact on this thread, I have quoted things you have raised as very valid quite a lot.

Some people desperately need to really on others however,my way is not to turn my back on those people.
You said yourself,some people are bad with money,there are however less and less organisations with the 'time needed' now to ensure they get sorted out.

Even if the usage of foodbanks is only around 334,000,that is no doubt in relation to the population a small number,however it is in my view a disgrace that anyone needs to use them in the UK,and as I said, they cannot just walk in to one, they have to be referred after they have been assessed as being in urgent/dire need.

I think the 45,000 usage left in 2010 by Labour was totally unacceptable too, they didn't get my vote.
A rise however from 45,000 to over 1,000,000 as to usage in just 5 years,well sorry, I would condemn massively anyone in power who presided over that.

Joey I haven't been called a little tinker for years,I quite like it,I hate not agreeing with you as you know how much regard I have for you ,the,same with Kizbot, I am just not so read up on it as some,and I suppose I was brought up with the notion,you get out of life what you put in and you get nothing in this life for nothing.I am going to read and study it more as,as I get older politics gets more interesting

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Joey I haven't been called a little tinker for years,I quite like it,I hate not agreeing with you as you know how much regard I have for you ,the,same with Kizbot, I am just not so read up on it as some,and I suppose I was brought up with the notion,you get out of life what you put in and you get nothing in this life for nothing.I am going to read and study it more as,as I get older politics gets more interesting

I somehow thought that would make you smile,

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Joey I haven't been called a little tinker for years,I quite like it,I hate not agreeing with you as you know how much regard I have for you ,the,same with Kizbot, I am just not so read up on it as some,and I suppose I was brought up with the notion,you get out of life what you put in and you get nothing in this life for nothing.I am going to read and study it more as,as I get older politics gets more interesting

Are you suggesting Joey an I were not brought up with said notion?
Yes I read up on it, the information is there for anyone who wishes to do so.
Joey is young and he has always been into politics, we may be a little more socially aware.

[bots]

The fact that we need food banks is an awful situation, no one can argue against that. However, before saying the number have increased with the current government, one needs to examine the reason why. Is it because people are in more need? Is it because the criteria for being eligible has been relaxed? Is it because the current government decided that sufficient banks should be available such that people who need to use one have easy access to it.

I've said this before and I will say it again. Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything. We have a huge deficit, with both parties determined to wipe it out in the next 5 years. I hope people honestly don't expect the number of needy people to reduce in that period, because its just not going to happen, things will get worse, much worse, with either a tory or labour government

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The fact that we need food banks is an awful situation, no one can argue against that. However, before saying the number have increased with the current government, one needs to examine the reason why. Is it because people are in more need? Is it because the criteria for being eligible has been relaxed? Is it because the current government decided that sufficient banks should be available such that people who need to use one have easy access to it.

I've said this before and I will say it again. Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything. We have a huge deficit, with both parties determined to wipe it out in the next 5 years. I hope people honestly don't expect the number of needy people to reduce in that period, because its just not going to happen, things will get worse, much worse, with either a tory or labour government

I agree, there are various factors like increased awareness, more referrals, a more concerted effort on the part of some charities etc. that have boosted the number of food banks massively, it would always have snowballed so it can be a bit of a fallacy to argue, say, that because ten times more people are using food banks than 5 years ago that ten times more people are in poverty. Germany has many more food banks than the UK has. That is not necessarily a bad thing, Smudgie's point is a very fair one that their growth also demonstrates the strength of charity in this country.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I agree, there are various factors like increased awareness, more referrals, a more concerted effort on the part of some charities etc. that have boosted the number of food banks massively, it would always have snowballed so it can be a bit of a fallacy to argue, say, that because ten times more people are using food banks than 5 years ago that ten times more people are in poverty. Germany has many more food banks than the UK has. That is not necessarily a bad thing, Smudgie's point is a very fair one that their growth also demonstrates the strength of charity in this country.

If it wasn't for the charities as Smudgie said, there likely would be fewer foodbanks,which would probably mean an even worse situation for those 'deemed' in poverty and needing that emergency assistance.
Not that we would likely hear of much of that,if that were the case.

Many charities,across the board, are clearing up the mess of both govts; over the last decade or so,however it is only this govt; who has cut charitable funding, so now it is even more stretched charities also dealing with the foodbank necessity.

It is shoppers in the main who supply the goods given out,which is wonderful to see and massively welcome.
However, charities should be being aided by govt; to make this service available,not have their funding cut to the bone and still be expected to.

The criteria for the use of foodbanks, remains the same too as it was before 2010, the CAB,social services, or charitable/welfare organisations have to assess people and refer them to a foodbank otherwise they cannot use them,resources are way too low.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If it wasn't for the charities as Smudgie said, there likely would be fewer foodbanks,which would probably mean an even worse situation for those 'deemed' in poverty and needing that emergency assistance.
Not that we would likely hear of much of that,if that were the case.

Many charities,across the board, are clearing up the mess of both govts; over the last decade or so,however it is only this govt; who has cut charitable funding, so now it is even more stretched charities also dealing with the foodbank necessity.

It is shoppers in the main who supply the goods given out,which is wonderful to see and massively welcome.
However, charities should be being aided by govt; to make this service available,not have their funding cut to the bone and still be expected to.

The criteria for the use of foodbanks, remains the same too as it was before 2010, the CAB,social services, or charitable/welfare organisations have to assess people and refer them to a foodbank otherwise they cannot use them,resources are way too low.

Sure but the huge increase in the number of food banks means that more people can now be referred surely, the supply has finally started to catch up with a need that was always there. I can understand the criticism of cutting charity funding but the Trussell Trust has never received government funding anyway, and I suppose there's always a risk that when charities are government funded they might lose their independence which is so important to their operations

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sure but the huge increase in the number of food banks means that more people can now be referred surely, the supply has finally started to catch up with a need that was always there. I can understand the criticism of cutting charity funding but the Trussell Trust has never received government funding anyway, and I suppose there's always a risk that when charities are government funded they might lose their independence which is so important to their operations

They are good points too.
However I didn't say the Trussell trust got funding, it is some other charities that to get funding from the govt; for their work,that have had the funding reduced or even stopped altogether.
They are the charities that in part help assess and find those who need help with food and then get them referred to the foodbanks.

The Trussel trust relies on companies and shoppers for the goods they can give out as emergency food rations for a limited time.
The very fact the word ration has to be used again is one of the saddest for me.

I just think it wrong that in my Country, the UK,in the 21st century that anyone,has to use something called a foodbank.
While those in power do not a thing to alter the situation.
It makes me feel shame as to what is supposed to be a great Nation, even when I am just helping out at one.

Now, Kazanne made another good point,as to wasted food.
Across the UK everyday, food still edible is being thrown out left,right and centre.
Companies could do a lot more to solve that,firstly by reducing the price in the first place and although I am against vouchers,the govt; could give a card to vulnerable people that would get them something like 25% off the cost of their shopping,possibly say once a month.
All that would help and it would be surprising how much it would too.
Leaving people with dignity still, and addressing the problem in some way at least at likely very little cost too.

That is just something I am just throwing out that I think could be done by govt;and enacted by supermarkets.
For instance, places can offer 10% off here and there for Pensioners and Students for goods and services,so clearly it can be easy to do.
My annoyance is govts; don't even look at what they could do to help.

Then charities could get back to giving advice and practical support as to their various identities,the way they used to before having to take on, vulnerable people, needing help now and then, with food.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I agree, there are various factors like increased awareness, more referrals, a more concerted effort on the part of some charities etc. that have boosted the number of food banks massively, it would always have snowballed so it can be a bit of a fallacy to argue, say, that because ten times more people are using food banks than 5 years ago that ten times more people are in poverty. Germany has many more food banks than the UK has. That is not necessarily a bad thing, Smudgie's point is a very fair one that their growth also demonstrates the strength of charity in this country.

I'm sorry that's not true more people are not using food banks because they're better advertised, it is because there are more referrals and that is due to the fact that medical/social and education professionals are worried about the health of an increasing number of people.
It cannot be argued that there are more people living in poverty, due to bedroom tax, council tax and sanctions it is not a fallacy.
What other countries do or don't do is irrelevant, we are not Germany.
Yes there is charity in this country, and that's fantastic to a point but is leaning on the already strained pockets of those in the local community the answer?...
Where is the government response? They can't cut and cut and cut and expect those who appreciate there's a problem to cope it's not a sustainable long term plan.
It's going to create more and more resentment.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm sorry that's not true more people are not using food banks because they're better advertised, it is because there are more referrals and that is due to the fact that medical/social and education professionals are worried about the health of an increasing number of people.
It cannot be argued that there are more people living in poverty, due to bedroom tax, council tax and sanctions it is not a fallacy.
What other countries do or don't do is irrelevant, we are not Germany.
Yes there is charity in this country, and that's fantastic to a point but is leaning on the already strained pockets of those in the local community the answer?...
Where is the government response? They can't cut and cut and cut and expect those who appreciate there's a problem to cope it's not a sustainable long term plan.
It's going to create more and more resentment.

cuts are made due to unpayable debt create by new labours insane laws and 1000s of new rules and regs plus new regs of the EU and even more new rules and regulations and red tape and expense from the devolved powers....new labours anti economic policies bankrupted the country

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

cuts are made due to unpayable debt create by new labours insane laws and 1000s of new rules and regs plus new regs of the EU and even more new rules and regulations and red tape and expense from the devolved powers....new labours anti economic policies bankrupted the country

I disagree with that, further this isn't a debate into what created the poverty but attitudes to it, whether the further apart the division between the rich and the poor gets will we begin to see more asking the government to buoy them or not?