[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's not really how it works Niamh, they didn't even get 40% of the popular vote. I suppose you can't assume that everyone who didn't vote Tory was actively against having a Tory government... but you can't assume that they weren't, either. I'm relatively confident in saying that anyone who voted Labour, SNP, Green, most Independents, and a good chunk of Lib Dem would not have wanted a Tory government.

Probably not but they're the breaks of having a democracy

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Probably not but they're the breaks of having a democracy

True, but I don't see it as any reason that people have to just roll over and take it up the tailpipe. Majority rule isn't always a good thing. Refusing to conform to popular opinion is not a character flaw. Sometimes, popular opinion is stupid and dangerous.

But then, I've been pretty open about that in the past. I have my reservations about full democracy. I don't trust "people in general" - I think they're stupid, ignorant and easily lead. That goes for voters of all parties by the way I'm not making assumptions about any one group... it's just people. "Average Intelligence" = "Quite Stupid".

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, but I don't see it as any reason that people have to just roll over and take it up the tailpipe. Majority rule isn't always a good thing. Refusing to conform to popular opinion is not a character flaw. Sometimes, popular opinion is stupid and dangerous.

But then, I've been pretty open about that in the past. I have my reservations about full democracy. I don't trust "people in general" - I think they're stupid, ignorant and easily lead. That goes for voters of all parties by the way I'm not making assumptions about any one group... it's just people. "Average Intelligence" = "Quite Stupid".

Well, if you take that power away from the people you end up with a dictatorship, that imo is far more dangerous. No system is perfect or will make everyone happy but imo every person should have a say in how their country is run

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, if you take that power away from the people you end up with a dictatorship, that imo is far more dangerous. No system is perfect or will make everyone happy but imo every person should have a say in how their country is run

An intelligent benevolent and genuinely caring dictatorship would be far more fair and effective than any democracy, in my opinion, but that's sort of irrelevant as there's most likely no such thing.

Thus far, democracy is the best we have but it isn't just "not perfect"... it's crap. It's speeches, lies, smear campaigns and propaganda. All of it. I'm an SNP supporter but I will freely admit that there's a LOT of SNP propaganda that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The way this general election campaign was conducted by the major parties was absolutely foul. Both campaigning on fear, both getting personal, barely a sniff of "here's what we will actually DO", just a clawing rabble all desperate to get into power.

I can accept the outcome of the election - I think it was inevitable, for multiple reasons - but I can't accept that we all just have to say "it is what it is" and keep quiet. "It's not perfect but this steaming pile of dung system is the best we have".

There has to be something better than this. A better system that actually works without the lies and the fear. And if people aren't willing to say "No, this is all bull****" we will never find it... we will continue this same pointless cycle until it all collapses.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

An intelligent benevolent and genuinely caring dictatorship would be far more fair and effective than any democracy, in my opinion, but that's sort of irrelevant as there's most likely no such thing.

Thus far, democracy is the best we have but it isn't just "not perfect"... it's crap. It's speeches, lies, smear campaigns and propaganda. All of it. I'm an SNP supporter but I will freely admit that there's a LOT of SNP propaganda that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The way this general election campaign was conducted by the major parties was absolutely foul. Both campaigning on fear, both getting personal, barely a sniff of "here's what we will actually DO", just a clawing rabble all desperate to get into power.

I can accept the outcome of the election - I think it was inevitable, for multiple reasons - but I can't accept that we all just have to say "it is what it is" and keep quiet. "It's not perfect but this steaming pile of dung system is the best we have".

There has to be something better than this. A better system that actually works without the lies and the fear. And if people aren't willing to say "No, this is all bull****" we will never find it... we will continue this same pointless cycle until it all collapses.

What is the alternative though? Maybe being automatically out of the running next election for lying to get into government? Should there be parties at all? Maybe the government should be made up solely of independent candidates and Ministers who are actually qualified for particular areas like Minister for Health actually being a Doctor or working in the medical field etc.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What is the alternative though? Maybe being automatically out of the running next election for lying to get into government? Should there be parties at all? Maybe the government should be made up solely of independent candidates and Ministers who are actually qualified for particular areas like Minister for Health actually being a Doctor or working in the medical field etc.

I don't know what the alternative is Niamh! If I did I would be off building my utopia, not arsing around on TiBB . That's sort of the point though... I'm saying that just because it's the best we have, doesn't mean it's not completely awful. And it certainly doesn't mean that we should stop looking for better, or stop being angry at just how bad it is.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't know what the alternative is Niamh! If I did I would be off building my utopia, not arsing around on TiBB . That's sort of the point though... I'm saying that just because it's the best we have, doesn't mean it's not completely awful. And it certainly doesn't mean that we should stop looking for better, or stop being angry at just how bad it is.

No wonder Gove is tasked with removing the human rights act if he had his way he'd bring back hanging... Seeing as his mate IDS is being prosecuted for human rights offences he better move fast or he's effectively sentenced his colleague to death

That's how bad it is.