[bots]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And Labour has also a LONG, LONG, history of deceit, corruption, mismanagement, waste, broken election promises, 'U' Turns and failures compared to 'insular little activist parties like ukip'.

Given that ukip are such a small party they are a bit of a mess, and so far don't seem to be adhering particularly to democratic processes within their own party. Corruption, well take a look at the crap surrounding the 650k going to the ukip mp back office. We only have a few examples to go on with ukip, but i'm not perceiving them as some lilly white party, far from it

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Given that ukip are such a small party they are a bit of a mess, and so far don't seem to be adhering particularly to democratic processes within their own party. Corruption, well take a look at the crap surrounding the 650k going to the ukip mp back office. We only have a few examples to go on with ukip, but i'm not perceiving them as some lilly white party, far from it

yes you study that and ignore 4 million votes for just 1 seat, typical disingenuous new labourite

[bots]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes you study that and ignore 4 million votes for just 1 seat, typical disingenuous new labourite

the things I mentioned have happened since the 4 million voted for them. I very much doubt if half that number would vote for them now.

I am neither disingenuous, as all I have said can be backed up with fact, or a labour supporter. I do however know the difference between a proper political party like the labour party and a mickey mouse one like ukip

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the things I mentioned have happened since the 4 million voted for them. I very much doubt if half that number would vote for them now.

I am neither disingenuous, as all I have said can be backed up with fact, or a labour supporter. I do however know the difference between a proper political party like the labour party and a mickey mouse one like ukip

Please do not start accusing me that I am; "trying to stifle or suppress anyone who disagrees with me" - or any other such unfair nonsense - as you have done before, because I am doing nothing more than exercising my democratic right to respond as a member of this forum with a counter post to a post which I do not agree with.

You know - the exact same way which you and others do.

First of all, comparing UKIP with the Labour party and describing it as 'mickey mouse' is as ridiculous as comparing the teetering first steps of a toddler with the practiced gait of a a fit 30 year old because UKIP is a relatively fledgling party by comparison with the long established Labour Party, and is therefore replete with all the teething troubles and immaturity one would reasonably expect it to have.

Secondly; you were the first to point out this disparency when you were defending the Labour Party's long history of corruption, malpractice, and failure in another post, implying that because UKIP WERE such a new party "we only have a few examples to go on with UKIP".

Lastly, you state that you: 'very much doubt if half that number (4 million) would vote for UKIP now', and that UKIP are a 'mickey Mouse party' and not a 'proper political party', and claim that "all" you "have said can be backed up with fact", but `I challenge you to POST those facts because the TRUTH is that UKIP are on the rise and have been phenomenally successful in such a very short space of time and despite having ALL the mighty media pro-EU and pro-Immigration media propaganda machine railed against it for years.

As the following FACTS incontrovertibly attest:

1) UKIP has cemented its place as the new third party of British politics after a fresh surge in popularity - this time in the more difficult terrain of parliamentary elections.

2) UKIP took not far off 4 million votes across the country: 3,881,129 according to the BBC’s final figures. That is 12.6% or one in every eight voters.

3) UKIP seized control of its first local authority – Thanet council – taking 33 of its 56 seats.

4) UKIP has its first MP - Douglas Carswell retaining the seat he won in last year’s Clacton byelection. Although only one seat due to the FPTP system, this is a 100% gain on the 2010 total.

5) UKIP has taken second place in 120 seats – up from precisely NONE at the last election.

6) UKIP are sucssefully on target with these results as far as their “2020 Strategy” is concerned, which is; "to get the party lined up as a serious and credible opponent to both Tories and Labour in order to launch a far stronger challenge at the polls in 2020.

7) UKIP also came a very close THIRD in a lot of seats and emerged as a CLEAR threat to the main two parties - notably in Thurrock where it took 31.7% of the vote and just TWO percentage points separate the Conservatives, Labour and UKIP.

8) UKIP's second places allow UKIP to present itself as the main credible opponent to the sitting MPs. A vote for UKIP in these seats no longer seems a wasted protest vote, but a viable means of unseating the discredited purveyors of austerity.

9) UKIP has done well across a surprisingly wide geographical spread with a noticeable UKIP vote in apparently unlikely areas such as parts of Wales.

10) UKIP has even shown by the votes it received in traditional Tory shires and Labour heartlands, that it IS making real connections with the electorate in these traditional Red and Blue strongholds.

11) UKIP has built on its existing presence in the Tory shires, where over the past couple of years it has gained substantial numbers of councillors at the local elections.

12) UKIP have also made great play of the party’s increasing popularity in northern, traditionally Labour constituencies – and the general election vote reflects this.

13) UKIP's policies have been so recognised as TRUE by a GROWING number of the electorate that Cameron and others have been quick to desperately hijack them and regurgitate them as their own - this includes immigration and the EU.

Don't be frightened by the TRUTH for the Truth shall set ye free.

[bots]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Please do not start accusing me that I am; "trying to stifle or suppress anyone who disagrees with me" - or any other such unfair nonsense - as you have done before, because I am doing nothing more than exercising my democratic right to respond as a member of this forum with a counter post to a post which I do not agree with.

You know - the exact same way which you and others do.

First of all, comparing UKIP with the Labour party and describing it as 'mickey mouse' is as ridiculous as comparing the teetering first steps of a toddler with the practiced gait of a a fit 30 year old because UKIP is a relatively fledgling party by comparison with the long established Labour Party, and is therefore replete with all the teething troubles and immaturity one would reasonably expect it to have.

Secondly; you were the first to point out this disparency when you were defending the Labour Party's long history of corruption, malpractice, and failure in another post, implying that because UKIP WERE such a new party "we only have a few examples to go on with UKIP".

Lastly, you state that you: 'very much doubt if half that number (4 million) would vote for UKIP now', and that UKIP are a 'mickey Mouse party' and not a 'proper political party', and claim that "all" you "have said can be backed up with fact", but `I challenge you to POST those facts because the TRUTH is that UKIP are on the rise and have been phenomenally successful in such a very short space of time and despite having ALL the mighty media pro-EU and pro-Immigration media propaganda machine railed against it for years.

As the following FACTS incontrovertibly attest:

1) UKIP has cemented its place as the new third party of British politics after a fresh surge in popularity - this time in the more difficult terrain of parliamentary elections.

2) UKIP took not far off 4 million votes across the country: 3,881,129 according to the BBC’s final figures. That is 12.6% or one in every eight voters.

3) UKIP seized control of its first local authority – Thanet council – taking 33 of its 56 seats.

4) UKIP has its first MP - Douglas Carswell retaining the seat he won in last year’s Clacton byelection. Although only one seat due to the FPTP system, this is a 100% gain on the 2010 total.

5) UKIP has taken second place in 120 seats – up from precisely NONE at the last election.

6) UKIP are sucssefully on target with these results as far as their “2020 Strategy” is concerned, which is; "to get the party lined up as a serious and credible opponent to both Tories and Labour in order to launch a far stronger challenge at the polls in 2020.

7) UKIP also came a very close THIRD in a lot of seats and emerged as a CLEAR threat to the main two parties - notably in Thurrock where it took 31.7% of the vote and just TWO percentage points separate the Conservatives, Labour and UKIP.

8) UKIP's second places allow UKIP to present itself as the main credible opponent to the sitting MPs. A vote for UKIP in these seats no longer seems a wasted protest vote, but a viable means of unseating the discredited purveyors of austerity.

9) UKIP has done well across a surprisingly wide geographical spread with a noticeable UKIP vote in apparently unlikely areas such as parts of Wales.

10) UKIP has even shown by the votes it received in traditional Tory shires and Labour heartlands, that it IS making real connections with the electorate in these traditional Red and Blue strongholds.

11) UKIP has built on its existing presence in the Tory shires, where over the past couple of years it has gained substantial numbers of councillors at the local elections.

12) UKIP have also made great play of the party’s increasing popularity in northern, traditionally Labour constituencies – and the general election vote reflects this.

13) UKIP's policies have been so recognised as TRUE by a GROWING number of the electorate that Cameron and others have been quick to desperately hijack them and regurgitate them as their own - this includes immigration and the EU.

Don't be frightened by the TRUTH for the Truth shall set ye free.

Sorry, but I don't have the energy to read all of your post. I will say this, come the next election, lets compare where ukip are then. You may not like it, but the facts speak for themselves when I refer to ukip as a mickey mouse party. Its my opinion which I am entitled to, and I am 100% confident that ukip will be a dead party come the next election.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Sorry, but I don't have the energy to read all of your post. I will say this, come the next election, lets compare where ukip are then. You may not like it, but the facts speak for themselves when I refer to ukip as a mickey mouse party. Its my opinion which I am entitled to, and I am 100% confident that ukip will be a dead party come the next election.

This is the most patently false overused claim on here whenever someone has NO ANSWER but you claim what you like.

[bots]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is the most patently false overused claim on here whenever someone has NO ANSWER but you claim what you like.

Kirk just stop it please. I have read many of your posts here, and they always take the same pattern. I have plenty time to debate with people who are passionate, yet can appreciate alternative views when appropriate. I will not involve myself in discussions where people think they can bully opinion on others.